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Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

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Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#71
post #18

What is Microsoft hoping to accomplish here? Given the rate of adoption of Windows 11, it seems unlikely that a majority of Windows 10 users will replace their hardware between now and October. It also seems to me that the scenario where a majority of PC users are running an unsupported Windows release is likely to create MS more problems than is offset by potential revenue from a hardware refresh cycle. Is there an…

As an Occam fan, I'd assume the main accomplishment is ensuring a minimum level of hardware capability for Windows 11. Anything on W11 will have a TPM so you can build around it. There's also a minimum CPU spec or whatever you can know you don't need to test under.

I'd imagine that cutting off support for 10+ year old machines and hardware would give a much bigger advantage then the revenue they get from a hardware refresh itself.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#72
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently found out that a friend of mine installed Linux on his own, completely removing his Windows install. And he has yet to "fiddle with the terminal", but still enjoys gaming on Steam and goes on with his daily routine.

Linux is in desperate need of a PR campaign. The popular distros are just as functional out of the box as Windows, but no one knows it.

> The popular distros are just as functional out of the box as Windows

Give me some names that works out of the box and resembles Windows. I have not tried Linux mint so I don't know how well it works for older people. Ubuntu has been quite good and stable but it has also required fiddling with the terminal.

The only one I found to be the best alternative to Windows is ... believe it or not, DeepinOS.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#73

I don't regret switching to mac 2 years ago.

How long does Apple keep updating MacOS's for older hardware? That I'm aware, there are iPhone models that were discontinued (Vs. Windows 10 is just under 10 years old now - and I don't know what's the newest Windows 10 system that can't update to Window 11.)

2017 for macOS 15 (2018 for mainstream Macs):

https://support.apple.com/en-us/120282

A few years shorter than the Win 10 lifecycle. Much shorter than the XP lifecycle, though that was unusual.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#75
post #18

What is Microsoft hoping to accomplish here? Given the rate of adoption of Windows 11, it seems unlikely that a majority of Windows 10 users will replace their hardware between now and October. It also seems to me that the scenario where a majority of PC users are running an unsupported Windows release is likely to create MS more problems than is offset by potential revenue from a hardware refresh cycle. Is there an…

I would it is a combination of metric-stuffing, land grab, and genuine concern about security.

Metric stuffing. Everyone at Microsoft is graded on "impact". All the EVP-types at Microsoft have their eye on boldface jobs, so they need a track record of massive impact. Beimg able to claim that they got W11 from X billion devices to Y is how theyll be judged. Another example is how in Azure, the only metric that matters is consumed revenue. That sort of thing drives behavior.

Land grab. W11 infamously makes the Start menu a billboard and has all kinds of usage data going back to the mother ship. If adoption slows, then Microsoft misses out on eyeballs, misses out on the ability to weld users to Copilot, misses the opportunity to earn money from ads, misses the opportunity to improve Windows by learning how people really use their conputers.

Security. Windows is embedded in modern life and although Microsoft gets a lot of flak, (and sometimes it takes a major beating to remind them of their responsibilities), they do want to elevate the security of users. They believe that W11 and TPM will give them a basis to really deliver stronger services. I dont know that they are right (eg if the #1 exposure for home users is ransomware, does a tpm help at all?), but I am prepared to give them dome grace.

Then again, I plan to use this opportunity to install Linux on my old PC.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#77
Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions for iOS seem to be missing some features (last time I checked was in the past year, and I couldn't find some paragraph-level formatting options I wanted in Word, eg). Google Docs seem like a different product, they apparently have great APIs, but the "click-based" features are no match. It's been ages since I tried LibreOffice, but it was no match back then either.

I'm thinking, either I need to get used to different workflows or just try virtualization. I heard Figma is great for presentations, anything that Excel can do where the alternatives are lacking is probably better done in R/Python anyway, but for Word I don't see an alternative. No way I'll use LaTeX for all my writing, and anything Markdown-based just won't cut it formatting-wise. Or just use something like Wine I guess. Anyone facing a similar situation?

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#78
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of DRM that uses TPM? What does TPM provide that stuff like SGX (which is already used in DRM) doesn't provide?

There are none. It's so immensely frustrating to me that so many people believe that a TPM is a DRM device. I'm sure Richard Stallman's Treacherous Computing article played a big part in this. A TPM is useless for DRM, and there are way more suited solutions like Intel's PAVP that takes an encrypted video stream and puts it on the screen directly, yet I don't see nearly as much uproar about that.

It goes TPM → OS Integrity (dm-/fs-verity) → Browser Attestation (Web Integrity) → Your banking website no longer working on Linux because of "security". It’s Play Integrity for the PC.

Encrypted video is a red herring. The real long game is to also get your "secure" video player to refuse playback if it detects watermark in the pirated video. This patches the analog hole.

If you have attested Windows it can just refuse to download "freeworld" VLC because it can be used for piracy and/or even watching child pornography. Imagine that!

Of course you can use Linux instead but now you have to use the approved distro that also won’t let you run "dangerous" apps.

This is of course slippery slope argument and Microsoft would not be able to force all that right now, but better get started on the foundations. Some future government can then just force them to implement the rest, but by then it will be just a flip of a switch.

"TPM is not DRM" argument seriously lacks imagination.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#79
post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

I mean... Office also just runs just fine on a Mac. But I agree, Linux is the way to go. VMs are not so bad, but you can also use Steam's Proton to run most Windows software just fine, I would be surprised if people don't just run Office from Steam's flavor of Wine, since the game support is phenomenal.
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