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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#211

Post by pjc50 »

BytesAndGears wrote: post #18
RangerScience wrote: post #6

> What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And…

Edit: thanks for all of the replies, I’m questioning my framing here now due to some smart people’s thoughts.. I suggest reading the full thread, as there are some interesting comments. I see the obvious parallels to Trump, and I agree completely (and hate that it is happening). But I feel like I also see a lot of parallels to the democrats. Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example.…

As a purely mechanical point: having a D president with R house and senate and supreme court is a very different situation to having R all across the board, which is why the "checks and balances" have stopped working.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#212

Post by ljm »

Dalewyn wrote: post #170
aisenik wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. Do I understand that while the United States is undergoing a radical neonazi revolution lead by the tech indus…

No, what you should takeaway is that misoverusing the term Nazi as an insult patently no longer works precisely because noone cares about being called a Nazi anymore due to its misoveruse. In a different timeline, Trump being called a Nazi or any of the vicinity terms should have been an immediate termination of his campaign chances. What actually happened is Trump ignored it (as he should) and the American people sh…

So, Americans were insulted by being called Nazis and in true progressive fashion decided to reclaim the term and, well, embrace it?

Cool - it’s nice that you say this is an American trait. I was almost about to say that this entire setup was manufactured to pit Americans against each other, weaponising victimhood and identity, with the complicity of legacy media and big tech. And out of the three players in this game - the ‘left’/‘libs’, ‘right’/‘conservatives’ and the billionaire fascists up top pulling the strings, only the billionaires stand to win.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#213

Post by i_love_limes »

noduerme wrote: post #73

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

I'm having a hard time googling the book you mentioned. Is it by any chance called 'They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45'? That's the closest thing I could find.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#214

Post by gspr »

This is one of the best books I ever read. I picked it up pretty randomly a few years back. It changed me.

Before reading it, I was firmly of the opinion that good people (like me! and everyone I like!) will (mostly) resist a fascist takeover. At least passively resist. As in not actively collaborate. Mostly. Reading that book obliterated almost all of those beliefs. (What little was left was destroyed by having children, and actually directly experiencing what it means when people say "I'll do anything for them").

I think it's the most upset I've been since I was a child and asked my parents why people suffering in a war on the news didn't just say that they don't wanna be in the game anymore. Because that was the rule that applied in kindergarten.

This all sounds very depressing. But read the book. It's a damn important book. (And it's very short and almost free – just read it).

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#215

Post by [deleted] »

lmm wrote: post #183
handoflixue wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example. I have never really understood this parallel. What laws got broken, there?

No laws were broken. But it's very much in line with what the article is talking about: > What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the peo…

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#216

Post by myrmidon »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #140
blooalien wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a way to utterly waste the likely last few generations of "civilized" humanity on Earth... :(

[flagged]

> The USA will likely address climate change directly through technology (geoengineering) vs rapid degrowth (the only two plausible means of stabilizing the climate)

How is "rapid degrowth" a solution to climate change? we have "degrowth" in population in basically every industrialized country already anyway, but more extreme rates like South Korea are already destabilizingly low, and still not even close to enough for keeping CO2 emissions in check: That would probably require us to slash population by at least 60% (and quickly, even if we kept enacting CO2 reducing measures).

There is already a "solution" for climate change on the table-- electrify everything, de-carbonize electricity generation and help roll out this change globally, but all the major players are dragging their feet because this is obviously not free...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#217

Post by thrance »

praptak wrote: post #131
9dev wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…and the YC CEO defending the hostile takeover of government agencies by (smart, I give you that, but still) teenagers.

Trumpists may be against democracy but they seem pro capital or at least pro big tech capital.

Fascists always are, that's how they gain enough support to gain power. Hitler had a lot of friends in the capitalist class, and the socialists and communists were the first to go under his rule.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#218

Post by aisenik »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #140
blooalien wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a way to utterly waste the likely last few generations of "civilized" humanity on Earth... :(

[flagged]

>2. The USA will likely avoid war.

The USA is currently experiencing an autocoup prosecuted by an unholy alliance of tech industry elites and dominionist christian white supremacists. Its president, who presided over an attempted violent coup in 2021, has called for the annexation of Canada and Greenland, ethnically cleansing Palestine and acquiring it as US territory, military incursions into Mexico, seizing Panama, and suggested the annexation of the United Kingdom.

He is openly aligned with radical white supremacist militias that are entwined with our sheriffs, police, and military. He's installed a white supremacist as Secretary of Defense with the support of congress and numerous others in powerful positions throughout the remnants of the US government.

We are on the precipice, staring into the abyss.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#219

Post by eigart »

aa-jv wrote: post #202
labster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, cynicism is the only rational reaction now. Lots of people died from covid and our poor government response, but Trump got a majority because eggs are too expensive.

[flagged]

Seeing your posts hours after Trump launched a plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza is quite the sight.

You’re like the black knight from Monty python.

Edit: I welcome the pushback on this post. The message I meant to convey is that of two evils. Yelling at the losing candidate does nothing for Gaza. It alienates even people who care (but I’m not perfect). I apologize for the divisive nature of my post.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#220

Post by MathMonkeyMan »

twixfel wrote: post #163
michaelhoney wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's happening in the US is in a whole other league of fucked

Yes the US is uniquely fucked, really. At least the previous global hegemon fought two world wars to lose its place. The US is basically committing geopolitical suicide at the top of its powers because of gender neutral toilets and the price of eggs. A rather pathetic country and people, sadly.

Triggered. If we are pathetic, then look forward to our enlightened successors.

I don't know what will happen in American politics, nor what effect it will have on the world or the permanence of those effects, but there are demagogues everywhere, America is not exceptional.

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