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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#161

Post by asdasdsddd »

gambiting wrote: post #148
asdasdsddd wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those agencies are funded by the federal budget. We are literally going into a deficit to send money to other countries. Do you realize how insane that is? And don't tell me this is just a small part of the federal budget. Oh its just a couple billion here and there. That's a lot of money that could go towards not being in debt. This level of fiscal irresponsibility is basically taxation without representatio…

>>We are literally going into a deficit to send money to other countries. Do you realize how insane that is? You mean the international development fund that's being raided right now? You know that it exists because US realized that it's cheaper(as in - LESS money spent overall) to help countries develop, so that US is less likely to engage militarily with whatever conflict happens in those countries eventually? It's…

> so that US is less likely to engage militarily with whatever conflict happens in those coutries eventually

Or you know, we can stop getting into wars? Did our adventures in the middle east advance US interests?

> It's part of being a global hagemony

It's called overextension and almost every historical power declined due to internal rot coupled by continuously getting into conflicts, which, wouldn't you know, drained the treasury.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#162

Post by trymas »

ookblah wrote: post #134
noduerme wrote: post #73

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

i don't even want to give people that benefit at this point. used to think that it was education, circumstances, outside forces, culture, etc. like "if only" we had XYZ then we can prevent this. at this point i just want to call it "stupidity". not even a left vs right thing. there exists a subset of the population that cannot and will not be educated or have the ability to reason on a certain level to make things wo…

Reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr5sTGxMUdo

Some people won’t change their mind even with contradicting evidence is shoved in their face.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#163

Post by twixfel »

michaelhoney wrote: post #25
pagutierrezn wrote: post #19

To make matters worse, this is not only "rehappening" in the US. It's global

What's happening in the US is in a whole other league of fucked

Yes the US is uniquely fucked, really. At least the previous global hegemon fought two world wars to lose its place. The US is basically committing geopolitical suicide at the top of its powers because of gender neutral toilets and the price of eggs. A rather pathetic country and people, sadly.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#164

Post by internet_points »

lucianbr wrote: post #62
computerthings wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's a gross simplification, and leaves out all the violence and constant deception. This is a good primer on just how far off the pop culture understanding of the Nazis is: https://archive.org/details/TheOriginsOfTotalitarianism/ "Without subversion or trickery" is flat out wrong. And it's also wrong for the US today.

I really have no clue about history, and what you say sounds very reasonable. I guess it is true. But I think any person who wants to live in a democracy needs a bare minimum ability to detect trickery. Because there has not yet been invented a system where none of the politicians lie, and you can make good decisions based on taking them all at their word. Now, maybe the level of subversion and trickery in pre-WW2 Ge…

If you don't want to read all of Arendt's book, https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/nazi_genoci... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung#Rise provides some details of the violence before and during Hitler's rise to power.

This line in particular is frightening:

> They thought that the Nazis were just another right-wing, nationalist party and that Hitler would be 'tamed' by power.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#165

Post by drewm1980 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #109
noduerme wrote: post #73

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

I remember I once stumbled upon pictures of the daily life of ordinary nazis. They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. There is even a video where hitler is shying away from his love companion. This was a shock to me as a kid: evil doesn't look like the caricature of "the very bad guy", it emerges in every day people. I think we failed to communicate that. It was too te…

Did you read the article? The section about "alarmists" and "troublemakers" is directly relevant to your take on the use of the word "Nazi". Some people have been calling Musk a Nazi for what, a decade? They sounded like alarmists a decade ago, but now he's literally doing Nazi salutes on TV, acting like it's normal.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#166

Post by oasisaimlessly »

handoflixue wrote: post #77
BytesAndGears wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: thanks for all of the replies, I’m questioning my framing here now due to some smart people’s thoughts.. I suggest reading the full thread, as there are some interesting comments. I see the obvious parallels to Trump, and I agree completely (and hate that it is happening). But I feel like I also see a lot of parallels to the democrats. Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example.…

> Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example. I have never really understood this parallel. What laws got broken, there?

Don't confuse legality with morality.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#167

Post by a_puppy »

lelanthran wrote: post #129
a_puppy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than thinking in terms of "left vs. right", I think in terms of "extreme left vs. moderate left vs. moderate right vs. extreme right". I support moderates over extremists. I support democracy and rule of law. I care about this more than I care about left vs. right.

> Rather than thinking in terms of "left vs. right", I think in terms of "extreme left vs. moderate left vs. moderate right vs. extreme right". I support moderates over extremists. I support democracy and rule of law. I care about this more than I care about left vs. right. This is a great position. I wish more people adopted it. The problem I have seen over the past few years is that those who are on the extremes ar…

> the extremes are not aware that they are on the fringe. They believe that their ideology is widely shared and common amongst everyone.

Yeah. I think the way to counteract this is for moderates to speak up against the extremists, including the extremists on their own side.

For example, Biden criticized the extreme left in the summer 2020 protests: https://medium.com/@JoeBiden/we-are-a-nation-furious-at-inju...

> Protesting [police] brutality is right and necessary. It’s an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.

We need more of that from our politicians. When Republicans are willing to criticize Trump, I respect them enormously for it; but few Republicans are willing to publicly disagree with Trump.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#169

Post by smackeyacky »

isaacremuant wrote: post #125
LandoCalrissian wrote: post #46

President is unilaterally shutting down federal agencies. If this goes on there really isn't a constitution anymore, not in practice anyway.

[flagged]

The US has transcended “both sides are bad” sorry mate. Elon is evil, full stop.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#170

Post by Dalewyn »

aisenik wrote: post #146
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember I once stumbled upon pictures of the daily life of ordinary nazis. They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. There is even a video where hitler is shying away from his love companion. This was a shock to me as a kid: evil doesn't look like the caricature of "the very bad guy", it emerges in every day people. I think we failed to communicate that. It was too te…

> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. Do I understand that while the United States is undergoing a radical neonazi revolution lead by the tech indus…

No, what you should takeaway is that misoverusing the term Nazi as an insult patently no longer works precisely because noone cares about being called a Nazi anymore due to its misoveruse.

In a different timeline, Trump being called a Nazi or any of the vicinity terms should have been an immediate termination of his campaign chances.

What actually happened is Trump ignored it (as he should) and the American people shrugged "OK" and went to vote for him with complete disregard.

Then Musk got called a Nazi at the inauguration, and the American people shrugged "OK" and went back to facepalming at just how much sheer waste the government has with complete disregard.

The moral you should take away is you should not invoke Godwin's Law. It's probably too late for "Nazi", "racism", "sexism", and a host of other insults the Left have thrown around to see what sticks (none have), but that doesn't mean future originally-valuable-terminology have to face the same fate.

Another moral is that insulting Americans probably doesn't actually work in general. "Deplorables", "Garbage", and others were turned around into rallying cries during the 2016 and 2024 campaigns, not unlike the original meaning behind the term "Yankee" which was originally an insult not unlike "Kraut" or "Jap" but is now one of the fondest nicknames of Americans.

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