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Apple Invites

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Re: Apple Invites

#761

Post by [deleted] »

lloeki wrote: post #728
satvikpendem wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but apparently the ‘color of the bubble’ has been a big thing in the U.S. among youth It's not the color itself that's the problem, it's that having one green user means the entire conversation falls back to SMS and thus photos, videos, etc are all degraded and you can't do more rich messaging things like reactions. This is changing with RCS but it is in Apple's interest to make it a social change rather than just…

> the entire conversation falls back to SMS > it is in Apple's interest to make it a social change rather than just a technological limitation. It is a technical requirement? How would non-iMessage users respond to the whole group including the ones on iMessage ? When you sit for 5min and think about the whole flow across a bunch of message exchanges every other way there's really no other technical solution than dow…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Invites

#762

Post by pbmonster »

Evil_Saint wrote: post #477
Hackbraten wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp absolutely has hardware lock-in. You need to be an Apple or Google customer to use it, and you need at least one Android or iOS phone.

Wow. I assumed you could use Whatsapp on the web but you literally can't. You have to have an Android or Iphone. I guess maybe there's a way to fake it with emulators on your computer but that's a lot of work that you shouldn't need to have to do.

The requirement is not exactly "iOS or Android", the requirement is "SIM card with valid phone number". Otherwise, you could use it on iPads and Android tablets, which you normally can't.

WhatsApp accounts are directly tied to a single phone number, both for user discovery (that way, you can simply message everybody in your contacts who has the app - just the way user expect it to work) and for spam prevention.

Creating a smartphone messaging app without this feature would be orders of magnitude more difficult, you simply can't get normie users to go around "hey, what's your WhatsApp user name?"

Re: Apple Invites

#763

Post by ascorbic »

lloeki wrote: post #728
satvikpendem wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but apparently the ‘color of the bubble’ has been a big thing in the U.S. among youth It's not the color itself that's the problem, it's that having one green user means the entire conversation falls back to SMS and thus photos, videos, etc are all degraded and you can't do more rich messaging things like reactions. This is changing with RCS but it is in Apple's interest to make it a social change rather than just…

> the entire conversation falls back to SMS > it is in Apple's interest to make it a social change rather than just a technological limitation. It is a technical requirement? How would non-iMessage users respond to the whole group including the ones on iMessage ? When you sit for 5min and think about the whole flow across a bunch of message exchanges every other way there's really no other technical solution than dow…

The solution is the same one used by every other messaging app: allow iMessage on Android. There is no technical thing stopping them. Instead they actively take measures to prevent it from working.

Re: Apple Invites

#764

Post by joshuamorton »

maratc wrote: post #737
joshuamorton wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the phone. You can't access this app without an iPhone.

Your argument is the same as “Walmart has a $25,000 entry ticket because you can’t access Walmart without a car.”

There are lots of ways to buy things from walmart without $25,000.

But to consider this more realistically: yes, one of the reasons I don't shop at walmart is because I don't own a car, and the closes Walmart to me is over 2 hours away on public transit, whereas the closest target is 15 minutes away, and amazon doesn't require me to leave my house.

Walmart is fine with that because me not shopping there doesn't make the store less attractive to others, but with social media it does. Me not using the iphone-only social media because it is behind a $500 or $1000 paywall makes it less useful for other people, especially when there are free alternatives around.

Re: Apple Invites

#765

Post by lilyball »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #750
brailsafe wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem I have with this, as an android user, is that there's probably no API available for someone to build an integration for other platforms if the market was there. I don't expect Apple to go and create cross platform clients for every service they put out, they're not a service first company, they're an Apple service first company.

That's a big problem though. They're targeting a class of use cases currently covered by iCalendar family of open protocols[0] and handled by every calendar and e-mail app there is. Because of their narrowed focus on features most relevant to individuals, families and groups of friends, they'll be able to deliver a superior experience there for people on their platform - and they have both enough users and the correc…

I can't say I've ever received an event invitation via iCalendar. Getting an .ics download for an event to put it on my calendar, sure, but that's not an invite, it's just a read-only event.

Re: Apple Invites

#766

Post by TheDong »

JohnBooty wrote: post #681
saintfire wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling it just "color of the bubble" downplays the intentional degredation of chat quality for everyone in the chat in order to encourage exclusion, presumably to create FOMO. Incidentally FOMO is a very powerful among youth, but it's still a thing for any group in some capacity. Not that I personally cared, as i see it as an Apple flaw, but in joining a work iMessage group I had people whining about image q…

Poor technical understanding. It's not "degradation." They will use the iMessage protocol if supported by all clients. If not, they fall back to the next best thing supported by all clients whether RCS or SMS/MMS. In your case (possibly before iPhones supported RCS) the "next best thing" was apparently SMS/MMS. This is the correct behavior. I think you're also falling into the common trap of automatically thinking wh…

All the other messenger apps you can use on iOS, like whatsapp, telegram, signal, etc, have no degradation with android users present.

Why can't apple publish an iMessage app for linux, windows, and android? Telegram and signal have no trouble maintaining applications for this, and they've got far less money than apple does.

RCS and SMS have been a total mess, yes, but every other chat protocol I've used has been better than iMessage in terms of supporting cross-platform communication. It's only iMessage which fails at this fundamental part of being a communication app, that of being available on multiple platforms.

I know you're going to say "the reason is spam, you need to pay apple $700 to get a device capable of iMessage, and they can ban by device, which deters spam"... which okay, fine, make iMessage be a $15/mo subscription to use on any non-iOS devices, that'd solve the spam problem just fine while still letting android users join back into the family group message chat again.

Re: Apple Invites

#767

Post by ascorbic »

JohnBooty wrote: post #681
saintfire wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling it just "color of the bubble" downplays the intentional degredation of chat quality for everyone in the chat in order to encourage exclusion, presumably to create FOMO. Incidentally FOMO is a very powerful among youth, but it's still a thing for any group in some capacity. Not that I personally cared, as i see it as an Apple flaw, but in joining a work iMessage group I had people whining about image q…

Poor technical understanding. It's not "degradation." They will use the iMessage protocol if supported by all clients. If not, they fall back to the next best thing supported by all clients whether RCS or SMS/MMS. In your case (possibly before iPhones supported RCS) the "next best thing" was apparently SMS/MMS. This is the correct behavior. I think you're also falling into the common trap of automatically thinking wh…

> They will use the iMessage protocol if supported by all clients.

Which would be perfectly reasonable if they allowed clients on other platforms. It just happens that the only clients are the ones that require buying Apple hardware. If the iMessage ptotocol is so great (I don't know enough about it to say), then great - either release an app for Android, or let others do it. Until then it's not a standard, open or otherwise.

Re: Apple Invites

#768

Post by dwaite »

sgt wrote: post #745
d0mine wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ignore, I've misread] ~~In that case, you must have iCloud+ subscription~~

I tried this and RSVP'd with an email that didn't have an Apple account, and it asked me to created an Apple account. I originally created the event using my own Apple account which definitely has iCloud+. So how do I create an event that someone without an Apple account can RSVP to?

I don't know - I was able share a link and RSVP without an account. AFAIK I enabled every option other than the shared album.

It does prefer contacting via email, so it did an email verification via mailed PIN, and then attached that email to the guest list from the link.

Re: Apple Invites

#769

Post by pbmonster »

notpushkin wrote: post #706
sfRattan wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to install WhatsApp on one of the three major 3rd-party AOSP-based operating systems (distros): Graphene OS, Calyx OS, or Lineage OS? Each one has varying models for replacing functionality of the Google Play Services, and IIRC the Aurora store [1] allows for installation of apps from Google Play without a Google account. It's not a combination of steps that would be accessible to the average user, but…

It is. Works great without Google services (maybe pushes don’t work though, I can’t remember), or with microG. > It's not a combination of steps that would be accessible to the average user Tangential, but I’m thinking about starting a degoogled phone shop. Not sure if it’s a good business idea, but I think there is at least some demand there. EDIT: aurorastore[.]org you link to is not the official site by the way. I…

> Tangential, but I’m thinking about starting a degoogled phone shop. Not sure if it’s a good business idea, but I think there is at least some demand there.

Sounds like an incredible amount of pain for very little gain.

* Even in my bubble (CS nerds, Linux only, FOSS developers, ect.), only around 20% run custom ROMs on their phones. The demand is tiny.

* Even the very best UX ROMs (GrapheneOS on a modern Pixel, with full Google Services re-installed in a sandbox) will drive normies crazy. Google Lens and Android Auto are non-trivial to get running. Google Pay/Wallet is straight up impossible. And again, this is on a re-googled de-googled phone. Can't imagine how bad it's with a truely de-googled phone.

* If you go back into the walled garden defeated, you lose almost everything you did outside it. The few things you don't lose, you will have to work hard for.

The few customers you would get would create a high number of support requests, and be very unhappy with whatever you could do for them. Everybody not needing your support already runs LinageOS/GrapheneOS successfully on their own.

Re: Apple Invites

#770

Post by dwaite »

ascorbic wrote: post #763
lloeki wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the entire conversation falls back to SMS > it is in Apple's interest to make it a social change rather than just a technological limitation. It is a technical requirement? How would non-iMessage users respond to the whole group including the ones on iMessage ? When you sit for 5min and think about the whole flow across a bunch of message exchanges every other way there's really no other technical solution than dow…

The solution is the same one used by every other messaging app: allow iMessage on Android. There is no technical thing stopping them. Instead they actively take measures to prevent it from working.

So your solution is to reject people from participating in a group chat until they install an Apple product on their Android phone?
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