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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

131–140 of 660 posts

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#131
disingenuous headline. America desperately needs to reform ATC hiring.

This is the same headline as the professional trucking shortage in the USA and glosses over the real reasons no one will take these jobs. mandatory overtime, low wages, miserable benefits, high stress and a well documented history of retaliation against organized labor.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#132
post #51
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First result in google for "air traffic controller training" https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications Edit: I didn't take a stance on this topic, if you think I did, you are incorrect. I was simply linking the website that outlines the requirements instead of postulating as to what they were.

You didn't say exactly what you believe, but I think you are mistaken if you are claiming that the FAA requires _uncorrected_ 20:20 vision as a qualification. "With FAA order 3930.3B ATC vision standards were made similar to airman standards. With or without correction air traffic controllers must demonstrate 20/20 distant vision in each eye separately, 20/40 in each eye at 16 inches near vision, and 20/40 in each ey…

I made no claims at all, I linked reference material.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#133
post #4

Seems like a colossal error to have asked them all to quit. I wonder -- if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? The deadline they have been given to decide is Thursday; I have not seen any communication as to whether ATC (and TSA, etc.) will be operational Friday.

It seems they clawed back the offer or never gave it in the first place. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-exempt...

They have nonetheless signaled that a subset of the staff is marked for firing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42936406

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#134
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

Did reagan do anything good in hindsight? Everytime I hear about him he seems like the worst president until trump came along

He pushed for and signed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...

which was a substantial improvement for millions of people. It's worth pointing out that the one (and probably only) good thing I can think of that Reagan did would get him tossed out of today's republican party.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#135

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

It seems like a good career path for people retiring from commercial aviation. They have been on the other end of ATC and know the gravity of the situation.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rising costs have made that much more true, though. My step-dad had a gorgeous 1940s Luscombe that he paid ~35k for in the 90s. He lived in an airpark where he paid 280k for a nice 3br house with a hangar. Good luck trying to replicate that now.

Having 85k of purely discretionary income (adjusting for inflation) is still pretty "rich people toy". That's about 105% median household income.

I mean, 85k ain't that much different from a "middle. Luxury" car these days. You can definitely customize a Tesla and come out over 85k easily. Cyber trucks *stsrt" at 80k.

Im sure that person could have paid out of pocket. But I doubt he did.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#137

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

It seems like a good career path for people retiring from commercial aviation. They have been on the other end of ATC and know the gravity of the situation.

There is a maximum age for atc applicants (31) that unfortunately makes this infeasible.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#138

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

It seems like a good career path for people retiring from commercial aviation. They have been on the other end of ATC and know the gravity of the situation.

You must be younger than 31 to qualify for training as an ATC: https://www.faa.gov/faq/what-are-age-requirements-individual...

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#139
post #4

Seems like a colossal error to have asked them all to quit. I wonder -- if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? The deadline they have been given to decide is Thursday; I have not seen any communication as to whether ATC (and TSA, etc.) will be operational Friday.

ATCs have the upper hand in this negotiation because they're essential and can't be quickly replaced. If enough ATCs quit that major airports have to be shut down or reduce flights, the airlines (and stock market) will turn against Trump pretty quickly. My guess is the going salary for ATCs is going to increase substantially once they realize they need to lure back those who quit. I would love to see all ATCs in DC q…

> Wouldn't it be great if Air Force One was stranded because of this.

I was under the impression that AF1 flew in/out of Andrews air force base, which I (possibly naively?) assumed did not use civilian ATC. But yes, that would be great :)

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#140

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

I've dreamed of having an AI model run ATC.

Just train an AI on ATC recordings and other data, maybe throw in some reinforcement learning,and then test it in low-stakes commercial airspace (like a regional airport)

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