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Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

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Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#81

Post by khedoros1 »

ginko wrote: post #69
michaelmrose wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the goals of "trusted computing" was supposed to be remote attestation. This was to be a secure unfalsifiable attestation to server that the client computer was running a secure environment that didn't allow bypassing restrictions. EG in the best of all possible worlds for Microsoft your work, your bank, and Netflix would all refuse to run if you weren't running Microsoft. Realistically Mac is way to big to ig…

>EG in the best of all possible worlds for Microsoft your work, your bank, and Netflix would all refuse to run if you weren't running Microsoft That would be the worst of all possible worlds. It's literally evil.

> for Microsoft

Key point, there.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#82

Post by poizan42 »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #80
poizan42 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel PTT was introduced in some 4th generation CPUs in 2013, I don't know where people get 8th generation from. And yes, it does not support TPM 2.0. Luckily Windows 11 only actually requires TPM version 1.2 (even if Microsoft claims that it's not recommended): https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-... (I'm not seeing any "nags" anywhere, I don't know where that would be?) Edit: I just noticed…

That looks consistent with an unsupported version of TPM (it states 1.16) and many others have reported that cpu doesn’t support TPM 2.0. Qq do you actually have windows 11 installed. Your original post implied you had yet TPM 1.16 is below even the TPM 1.2 version allowed.

Look at the screenshots again. It states Specification version: 2.0. And the PC Health check app agrees that I have a TPM 2.0.

And yes, I have Windows 11 installed

I can't tell you why it seems to think that it is a valid TPM 2.0 module, but a lot of people have reported seeing similar things, e.g. https://old.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/rrta2r/tpm_que...

(Btw. I'm pretty sure 16 is larger than 2. It's not saying 1.1.6. It's a version string, not a decimal number)

Edit: The name of the specification is: Trusted Platform Module Library Family “2.0”, Revision 1.16. This was released in 2014: https://trustedcomputinggroup.org/resource/tpm-library-speci...

So yes, this is TPM 2.0. And TPM 2.0 was released in a non-draft version at the time my CPU was made. And the "1.16" is the revision number of the TPM 2.0 specification that it supports.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#83

Post by poizan42 »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #47
runjake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your CPU? My math may be wrong, but the minimum Intel CPU supported is 8th gen, which started coming out about 8 years ago.

+1 to being really really sceptical of anyone claiming to have a 10 year old system that supports it. Skylake is literally well known for not supporting TPM 2.0 and the i7-6700K is still considered reasonably high end by todays standards (tech hasn't moved fast in the past decade and the 14nm Skylakes aren't that far off the 14nm+++++ high end variants Intel sells today). The first draft of TPM 2.0 was 2015. The fina…

I went and checked now, and your timeline seems way off. According to https://trustedcomputinggroup.org/resource/tpm-library-speci... the first draft of TPM 2.0 was in 2013 not 2015, and the first "non-draft" version was in 2014 not 2019. It does make sense, revision 1.16 of TPM 2.0 does predate my CPU.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#84

Post by michaelmrose »

ginko wrote: post #69
michaelmrose wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the goals of "trusted computing" was supposed to be remote attestation. This was to be a secure unfalsifiable attestation to server that the client computer was running a secure environment that didn't allow bypassing restrictions. EG in the best of all possible worlds for Microsoft your work, your bank, and Netflix would all refuse to run if you weren't running Microsoft. Realistically Mac is way to big to ig…

>EG in the best of all possible worlds for Microsoft your work, your bank, and Netflix would all refuse to run if you weren't running Microsoft That would be the worst of all possible worlds. It's literally evil.

See their previous attempt at making the web windows only. Even if you accept that its greed not malice it creates a single point of failure to be abused in case you know the US is ever taken over by fascists. Not that that you know could ever happen.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#85

Post by jerhewet »

wordglyph wrote: post #46
fafhnir wrote: post #42

install linux, get vmware pro for free and install win 11 in a VM. VMWare emulates TPM so it will run like a charm. Only thing you need is 8Gigs or so extra ram. plus you have the benefits of running windows in a VM. No backup problems, snapshot funcionality, etc etc. works absolute fine for me

Does VS studio work fine too?

I installed Windows 11 and Visual Studio 2022 on my Mac Mini M2 and it works like a bloody charm. It's not as fast as my main Windows development machines, but it's 100% functional and operational.

Bonus: I'm running Little Snitch on the OSX side, and it does a brilliant job of stomping all over Microsoft's telemetry.

Edit: Running it under VMWare Fusion.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#86

Post by johnea »

superjan wrote: post #49
pjc50 wrote: post #11

As someone who owns a machine which gets reminders to update to Windows 11 despite not being allowed to, the whole thing is bizarre. There's no cited explanation for the TPM "requirement", and it's obviously not a requirement since you can turn it off. It makes me very suspicious that there's some ulterior motive.

One explanation is that Microsoft is a collection of teams with different objectives. I suppose the security people would like something better than TPM to compete with Apple’s hardware security. OEM contacts will plead on behalf of their vendors to lower standards. And the sales people want to push end-users to buy a new PC that needs a new license. Ultimately everyone’s life at Microsoft will improve with users mov…

Another explanation is that there is some kind of giant back room payola between MS and h/w manufacturers...

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#88

Post by pllbnk »

At this point I no longer see significant reasons for majority of people to continue using Windows. Previous arguments such as gaming and exclusive Windows-only software have been largely resolved in Linux. Sure, there are some exclusives but they don't justify the massive differences in user share among operating systems.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#89

Post by throwfgtpwd234 »

sour-taste wrote: post #14

I built my own PC years ago and it came without a tpm so I can't upgrade. The motherboard does have the plug for a tpm so I bought a cheap one and tried plugging it in. Windows still doesn't recognize it. I did my best but the obsoleting Microsoft is doing here is heavy handed

It has to be a TPM 2.0, not 1.2.

Re: Microsoft cracking down people upgrading to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware

#90

Post by throwfgtpwd234 »

sebazzz wrote: post #64
sour-taste wrote: post #14

I built my own PC years ago and it came without a tpm so I can't upgrade. The motherboard does have the plug for a tpm so I bought a cheap one and tried plugging it in. Windows still doesn't recognize it. I did my best but the obsoleting Microsoft is doing here is heavy handed

You still need to enable the dTPM in the BIOS. It is not like a USB device which is plug-and-play.

That's on newer machines where it's likely built into the processor, not for older machines that had a TPM as an option that connected via a header.
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