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Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

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Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since what we're looking for is a peace that eliminates collateral damage, perhaps the best course would be to reassure both sides that they can have security without having control.

In my opinion government focus should be on the education of young people, and not on trying to force and bend adults to behave in the narrow "correct" way. Again, with some exceptions. If we want more female representation in STEM - focus on education. If we want people not to use some slur or derogatory term - teach people in the school. And so on. The problem is that across the world education is a third tier acti…

Some people will choose to antagonize men or women even after being made aware of the facts. That's why people who are unwilling to tolerate a low level of bad behavior and the after-the-fact nature of punishment wind up demanding absolute and preemptive control over everybody else.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not being very charitable, have you considered that you may be letting your biases have an undue influence on your judgement here?

I would flip this back on you. They gave a very good example of these rules being used for censorship with DeSantis prosecuting scientist for reporting numbers. Selective enforcement is a known thing so is your affection for the people in charge stopping you from seeing the obvious problem here?

I support the purported intent of this policy, not the misuse of it. But that's something that has to be challenged when it happens, and it hasn't happened yet. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make any policy since it could always potentially be misused. For the record I expect there will be some misuse of it, but broadly I also expect it to curtail the fake woke "science" that was itself a kind of misuse of the system.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#83
It's chilling that the new administration's first priority is to defund projects that don't agree with their ideology, and make an explicit show of it.

That said, this specific post is over-egging the post it's quoting.

The original post is https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:aixj65vnqpllcjnc4ante42b/po... by Darby Saxbe at USC, leaking materials from an NSF Program Officer. She says these are words that "can cause a grant to be pulled". What she's leaking appears to be inference done, over a partial set of "flagged" awards, and the keywords drawn from them. It does not say this is the official list of keywords.

The accompanying decision tree - what the NSF is being ordered to do - says if the "keywords and context" of various parts of the grant application "implicate" Trump's executive orders (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_14151), then they must keep the flag and mark that they found "DEIA and other EO language" -- but if not, they can remove the flag. So if you proposed "Systemic analysis of the bigliest cofeve all women find irresistible", you'd likely get funded, because the context reveals you're a big Trump suck-up, even if you used words like "systemic" and "women".

What I get from the original post is the word "systemic" is not actually banned, and may not even be a "keyword" causing awards to be "flagged". But if you're dependent on a grant from NSF for your livelyhood, you obviously want the greatest chances of being funded, and simply not knowing what the orange one is going to fuck about with next, or what exactly he's instructed people to do, is a great cause of anxiety. That's information asymmetry, and it's a form of power in itself. And he's already fucked about by stopping all funding immediately and only adding it back after review. But don't let posts that are also unofficial add to your anxiety.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#84
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

flagged != forbidden

i am curious: do you actually believe the lies that you are parroting? i would hope you were not so easily fooled by these obvious liars.

Youvegone through this entire thread calling everyone who points out that the title is misleading gullible or evil.

The title is literally different to the article; people complaining that review is not the same as banned aren't evil in the same way that people who complained about master vs main weren't evil.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would flip this back on you. They gave a very good example of these rules being used for censorship with DeSantis prosecuting scientist for reporting numbers. Selective enforcement is a known thing so is your affection for the people in charge stopping you from seeing the obvious problem here?

I support the purported intent of this policy, not the misuse of it. But that's something that has to be challenged when it happens, and it hasn't happened yet. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make any policy since it could always potentially be misused. For the record I expect there will be some misuse of it, but broadly I also expect it to curtail the fake woke "science" that was itself a kind of misuse of the sy…

...can you point to some of this 'fake "woke" science'?

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am curious: do you actually believe the lies that you are parroting? i would hope you were not so easily fooled by these obvious liars.

Youvegone through this entire thread calling everyone who points out that the title is misleading gullible or evil. The title is literally different to the article; people complaining that review is not the same as banned aren't evil in the same way that people who complained about master vs main weren't evil.

In point of fact, I have been asking whether they are parroting lies or gullible.

This type of "review" is simple McCarthyism. DeSantis, in Florida, has shown us how this goes. The Trump admin is doing this on a pretext of removing politics from science, when it is demonstrably injecting politics into science.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally what the quote says: "From a program officer at the National Science Foundation, a list of keywords that can cause a grant to be pulled". And then it goes on to quote a long list of words that would be characteristic of woke social science "research".

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youvegone through this entire thread calling everyone who points out that the title is misleading gullible or evil. The title is literally different to the article; people complaining that review is not the same as banned aren't evil in the same way that people who complained about master vs main weren't evil.

In point of fact, I have been asking whether they are parroting lies or gullible. This type of "review" is simple McCarthyism. DeSantis, in Florida, has shown us how this goes. The Trump admin is doing this on a pretext of removing politics from science, when it is demonstrably injecting politics into science.

Yeah, but we saw this coming years ago when hordes were cheering actual banning of words. I wasn't the only one on various forums who pointed out to all those cheerleaders in the "main replaces master or you're a nazi" camp that normalizing banning of words can only hurt in the long run.

I do not support banning of speech in any but the most extreme cases, but this still uses "review" at least. The previous "master vs main" proponents didn't even bother to pretend that there was any context in which master would be approved.

We've been warning for years, stop being so extreme. And now you, too, gets to see the result of normalizing language policing.

Enjoy.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In point of fact, I have been asking whether they are parroting lies or gullible. This type of "review" is simple McCarthyism. DeSantis, in Florida, has shown us how this goes. The Trump admin is doing this on a pretext of removing politics from science, when it is demonstrably injecting politics into science.

Yeah, but we saw this coming years ago when hordes were cheering actual banning of words. I wasn't the only one on various forums who pointed out to all those cheerleaders in the "main replaces master or you're a nazi" camp that normalizing banning of words can only hurt in the long run. I do not support banning of speech in any but the most extreme cases, but this still uses "review" at least. The previous "master v…

Believe it or not, while I think that MAGA is on the precipice of turning the USA into a fascist state, I, too, oppose the control of language.
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