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Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

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Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#71

Post by Yizahi »

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whatever they want. From all sides of the political spectrum. Who knew, right?:)

PS: I'm against any word bans with a very few extreme exceptions. Blanket bans for whatever random person deems offensive inevitably led to this^. Like clockwork, every single time.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#72

Post by whatshisface »

Yizahi wrote: post #71

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whateve…

Since what we're looking for is a peace that eliminates collateral damage, perhaps the best course would be to reassure both sides that they can have security without having control.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#73

Post by techbananas »

Yizahi wrote: post #71

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whateve…

I wasn’t crazy about moving away from master, but this isn’t a word ban, it’s a concept ban. They’re not really banning the word diversity, they’re banning the study of diversity by any name.

Renaming master to main, doesn’t mean that you can’t do trunk based development, it just means you’re using a different term.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#74

Post by 9283409232 »

sincerecook wrote: post #69
drawkward wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're not being very charitable, have you considered that you may be letting your biases have an undue influence on your judgement here?

I would flip this back on you. They gave a very good example of these rules being used for censorship with DeSantis prosecuting scientist for reporting numbers. Selective enforcement is a known thing so is your affection for the people in charge stopping you from seeing the obvious problem here?

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#75

Post by Yizahi »

whatshisface wrote: post #72
Yizahi wrote: post #71

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whateve…

Since what we're looking for is a peace that eliminates collateral damage, perhaps the best course would be to reassure both sides that they can have security without having control.

In my opinion government focus should be on the education of young people, and not on trying to force and bend adults to behave in the narrow "correct" way. Again, with some exceptions. If we want more female representation in STEM - focus on education. If we want people not to use some slur or derogatory term - teach people in the school. And so on. The problem is that across the world education is a third tier activity for the government and is largely neglected. No big profits there.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#76

Post by drawkward »

sincerecook wrote: post #69
drawkward wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're not being very charitable, have you considered that you may be letting your biases have an undue influence on your judgement here?

I was being charitable by asking whether you are gullible or a parrot. Gullible is the charitable interpretation. This whole action has been done on a pretext of lies: getting politics out of science, when it fact is is putting politics into science.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#77

Post by techbananas »

bhouston wrote: post #11

I am so disheartened by the term "free speech" in political usage because it does seem to me mostly a rallying call to actually ban speech that the user of the term dislikes. I look to how "cisgender" is treated on X worse that most actual ethnic slurs: https://www.fastcompany.com/91126082/elon-musk-x-cisgender-c... Very few actually want to apply it equally to both their side and the opposing side. I did notice this…

I’m curious what will happen to FIRE over the next few years. Presumably a lot of their funding over the past few years has come from right leaning sources and presumably they’re going to have to change their tack with the new folks in power.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#78

Post by Yizahi »

techbananas wrote: post #73
Yizahi wrote: post #71

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whateve…

I wasn’t crazy about moving away from master, but this isn’t a word ban, it’s a concept ban. They’re not really banning the word diversity, they’re banning the study of diversity by any name. Renaming master to main, doesn’t mean that you can’t do trunk based development, it just means you’re using a different term.

Yes. That ban (sorry, I still think that's what it was in reality) was a mild one and inconsequential. I personally have no problem with that specific episode.

The real problem is that and other such minor episodes normalized word bans as a general principle. So as soon as more radical people come in power, they have used it to ban what THEY want.

Just like normalizing talks about occupation of Greenland today, will inevitably lead to the real occupation in 20-30 years in the future, by some Mango v2.0.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#79

Post by drawkward »

gorpnuts wrote: post #30
drawkward wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you think the term "women" is only relevant in social science and pop psychology, it begs the question whether you are informed enough to have an opinion worth considering.

I like how you used the idiom begs the question correctly and OP didn’t.

Let's be honest: nothing MAGA is based on intellectual rigor.

Re: Words flagged in search of current NSF awards

#80

Post by whatshisface »

techbananas wrote: post #73
Yizahi wrote: post #71

I remember how "master" and "slave" were banned a few years back in information technology context and people cheered that ban. And surprise surprise, the same mechanism of arbitrary bans can be turned 180 degrees. And it appears that if the only criteria is a superficial offense at the established word unrelated to the imaginary offense, then many different people can use that same mechanism to ban or attack whateve…

I wasn’t crazy about moving away from master, but this isn’t a word ban, it’s a concept ban. They’re not really banning the word diversity, they’re banning the study of diversity by any name. Renaming master to main, doesn’t mean that you can’t do trunk based development, it just means you’re using a different term.

If there was any value at all in renaming it to main, it was preventing people from being reminded of the unhappy concept of slavery. I don't think one ban is more conceptual than the other, if there's a difference it's that scrubbing an unhappy concept from research is more pragmatically damaging than scrubbing it from nomenclature - not because one's morally better, but because the former is more difficult to evade.
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