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The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

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Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#91

Post by pydry »

pas wrote: post #15
leoedin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…

Not just politicians in general, but people, of course, are always surprised how expensive housing is, but then reject any kind of streamlined mass-manufactured option. They are conditioned to worship at the altar of small businesses and good ol' craftsmanship. (And plot after plot they blindly erect yet another replica of the standard American Dream with the compulsory backyard where they truly can be free, and cond…

>people, of course, are always surprised how expensive housing is, but then reject any kind of streamlined mass-manufactured option.

It's a pretty specific type of person who rejects the construction of streamlined social housing - somebody who definitely doesnt pay rent and someone who probably receives it.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#94

Post by vfclists »

Ain't gonna happen.

US businesses are incapable of thinking long term.

If the US wants to build a ship industry they must invite Chinese shipbuilders to kickstart it just as they invited TSMC to build a factory here.

But that doesn't seem likely does it?

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#95

Post by hnthrow90348765 »

suraci wrote: post #70
foldr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a pretty realistic China/US war scenario. China invades Taiwan and then the US responds militarily. I’m not saying that this is a particularly likely scenario, but it’s far from impossible.

China reunifies Taiwan: 100% US responds militarily: not likely but possible

That's if we had a democratic president. We most certainly won't respond in the next 4 years to anything China or Russia does. The only thing they have to do for that benefit is not attack us directly.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#96

Post by suraci »

davemp wrote: post #81
suraci wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> even the most hawks Americans can only think about how to defend and A2/AD if the Chinese intervene in taiwan Works both ways.

i don't know which one is more crazier

you don't know where taiwan is

or

you know it well but still think it's totally normal and reasonable to do that

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#97

Post by oldpersonintx »

indymike wrote: post #89

I don't share the confidence in large ships being the future of naval anything. Even in the 90s, surface ships were easy pickings for submarines and antiship missiles. Smaller ships acting as drone carriers combined with arsenal ships can allow local power projection to keep shipping lanes open. Submarines and aircraft remain the safest, and best way to deliver offensive firepower. The aircraft carrier does have a ro…

[dead]

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#98

Post by oldpersonintx »

suraci wrote: post #33
leoedin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…

> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?

[dead]

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#99

Post by throw0101c »

For anyone interested in the topic, highly recommend the What's Going on With Shipping? channel:

* https://www.youtube.com/@wgowshipping/videos

AIUI, the problem is that the US lacks a policy. This is what China's strength is: making a decision and getting it done.

The article mentions the SHIPS Act which the channel talks about:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iksNr3s2WVs

As well as five suggestions for Trump:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CoOXdpxvIo

The IRA/CHIPS acts helped bring plants to the US soil. Industrial policy can work. China subsidized many industries that they thought would be strategically important, and they're now important players in those industries.

As Noah Smith recently wrote:

> Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-new electric vehicles for $10,000, why should you turn them down? Just make B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps, sell them for a high profit margin, and drive a Chinese car.

> Except then a war comes, and suddenly you find that B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps aren’t very useful for defending your freedoms. Oops! The right time to worry about manufacturing would have been years before the war, except you weren’t able to anticipate and prepare for the future. Manufacturing doesn’t just support war — in a very real way, it’s a war in and of itself.

* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#100

Post by suraci »

jonnybgood wrote: post #85
suraci wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> not a single chinese have a single thought about going war with the US Odd. Then who in China feels the need to outcompete US military technology? Why is China developing missiles like DF-27 that are difficult to counter and take out aircraft carriers? Who is coming up with these ideas and for what purposes?

that's the refelection you'll have if your neighbor is a psycho whose first thought every morning is to decide whether he should go around to shoot something, especially after the psycho neighbor has shooted to many ones already
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