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The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

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Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#71

Post by briandear »

suraci wrote: post #33
leoedin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…

> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?

The Chinese certainly think like this. The North Koreans are certainly on a constant war footing. The world is an extremely hostile place.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#72

Post by suraci »

scandox wrote: post #52
suraci wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?

Well if you look at history it is a story of almost continuous war so it would be very optimistic indeed not to consider it.

american history

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#73

Post by briandear »

plastic3169 wrote: post #57
vuurmot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

looking at this from the other side of the world, it feels like americans are so insecure, as if they are constantly frightened

And who would ever even attack the US? Massive military spending and they are isolated from all the potential enemies behind two huge oceans. Average american should worry about civil war or maybe nukes. Nothing else will ever reach them.

9-11 is a counter example. Asymmetric warfare is a constant threat.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#74

Post by suraci »

briandear wrote: post #71
suraci wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?

The Chinese certainly think like this. The North Koreans are certainly on a constant war footing. The world is an extremely hostile place.

[flagged]

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#75

Post by __loam »

peepeepoopoo105 wrote: post #6

This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. War planners should have pushed to repeal the Jones Act decades ago, but now Chinese shipbuilding capacity is over 230 times greater than ours because of their success in civilian shipbuilding. The proposed measures in this aricle are too little too late. The only logical course of action at…

Destroyers are a lot bigger than aircraft. Big enough to carry equipment that can be used to defend themselves like SAMs and CIWS. You can also park a destroyer offshore and sit there, menacingly, without exposing the ship to AWACS and long range fighter patrols. Anti-ship missiles exist but Aegis is a lot more durable to that.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#76

Post by jonnybgood »

suraci wrote: post #70
foldr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a pretty realistic China/US war scenario. China invades Taiwan and then the US responds militarily. I’m not saying that this is a particularly likely scenario, but it’s far from impossible.

China reunifies Taiwan: 100% US responds militarily: not likely but possible

The only way the US will not respond militarily is if Taiwan chooses unification. By all accounts, Taiwan will not choose that. The US military has not been strategically shifting to the Indo-Pacific for more than 10 years now for no reason.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#77

Post by __loam »

suraci wrote: post #33
leoedin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…

> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?

We have a saying, "speak softly and carry a big stick"

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#78

Post by lupusreal »

foldr wrote: post #66
vuurmot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

looking at this from the other side of the world, it feels like americans are so insecure, as if they are constantly frightened

There’s a pretty realistic China/US war scenario. China invades Taiwan and then the US responds militarily. I’m not saying that this is a particularly likely scenario, but it’s far from impossible.

The nature and number of the naval assets that China is building suggests that China invading Taiwan is actually very likely. Westerners who don't understand why China would want to do that get hung up on their lack of understanding, think it an irrational act (bad for trade, etc) and therefore unlikely for China to do. What they're missing is the concrete evidence of China preparing to do it.

Those amphibious landing ships have one purpose; they're as clear a signal as Russia building field hospitals near the border stocked with blood.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#79

Post by walthamstow »

poisonarena wrote: post #63
raverbashing wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Jones Act was supposed to help American shipbuilding Yes And this is what happens. Naive protectionism 101

chuckling to myself in my bed while reading this comment after working 12 hours on my oil tanker today. I am an OS in the SIU and i spend every night reading a little HN to motivate me to finish my software hobby projects so i can escape this hell

More power to you mate. I knew nothing when I first came here, now I've been a working SWE for 5 years.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#80

Post by snailmailstare »

__loam wrote: post #75
peepeepoopoo105 wrote: post #6

This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. War planners should have pushed to repeal the Jones Act decades ago, but now Chinese shipbuilding capacity is over 230 times greater than ours because of their success in civilian shipbuilding. The proposed measures in this aricle are too little too late. The only logical course of action at…

Destroyers are a lot bigger than aircraft. Big enough to carry equipment that can be used to defend themselves like SAMs and CIWS. You can also park a destroyer offshore and sit there, menacingly, without exposing the ship to AWACS and long range fighter patrols. Anti-ship missiles exist but Aegis is a lot more durable to that.

I think Russia still has most of its fleet because the US wasn't initially comfortable giving Ukraine the range that is typical?
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