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Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

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Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#131

Post by menaerus »

jpdus wrote: post #125
menaerus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if one has a well thought-through idea, what is the process of getting the resources ($$$) from OpenEuroLLM and the compute from EuroHPC? How do I become a partner as a long-standing engineer with plenty of industry practice in research and development? I am asking this because I never really understood how EU funds are working, they always seemed to me as there's a lot of gate keeping.

There definitely is - but that we, as a startup that is barely a year old and not widely known outside our niche in AI dev circles and on Huggingface, are part of this is already a sign that times are changing. To be fair: We probably couldn't have handled the paperwork without LLM´s - but due to this technology, the process was still long and involved but manageable. (BTW: We´re hiring, if you really want to work on…

If I had a startup where would I apply to get into this program? Where did your company apply to?

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#132

Post by permanent »

MR4D wrote: post #48
jpdus wrote: post #13

As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…

The money doesn’t matter. The goals don’t matter. The people don’t matter. The only thing that matters is how much regulatory red tape is involved. My guess is that the paperwork will kill this. Read the announcement. Too much discussion about regulatory framework. In the US or China, all you need is some money and smart people. That’s a very low barrier to getting moving forward.

> China, all you need is some money and smart people

No way

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#133

Post by 2-3-7-43-1807 »

jpdus wrote: post #121
2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deepseek has just shown that you probably can't beat the big labs with these resources is that a new take? cause so far deepseek was considered as proof for small companies being able to compete with big players like openai ...

might be debatable - but I tend to agree with Dario Amodei on this; my guess is that R1 is 7-10 months behind the internal frontier at the big labs, while having a few small novel tricks. (But i might err, will be interesting to see the development going forward)

the main narrative so far was that deepseek was cheaper and better than llms by openai.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#134

Post by closewith »

input_sh wrote: post #114
CrimsonRain wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All talk. No show. That's EU. I'll believe it works after they finally have one success

Would you consider for example Firefox' completely-local translations a success? Directly funded by Horizon, made by a consortium of 4 European universities, now a part of Firefox?

7 languages and a feature nobody to a rounding error uses? No, I don't consider that to be a research, economic, or technical success.

Honestly, I'm not sure if you posted this is support of Horizon or against? The Horizon budget for 2021-2027 is €95.5 billion or ~€15 billion per annum. If a headline "success" is an unfinished implementation of translation in Firefox of a translation engine (Marian) built by the Microsoft Translator team, then it's safe to say Horizon is an unqualified failure.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#135

Post by Cumpiler69 »

miohtama wrote: post #87
sarusso wrote: post #8

They allocated €37.4 million [1]. As an European, I truly don’t understand why they keep ignoring that the money required for such projects is at least an order of magnitude more. [1] https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/pioneering-ai-...

Because Europe does not have enough money. This comes from taxes i.e. as an EU citizen you pay for the fun. Private sector often does not fund projects like these as they have bad return on investment.

>Because Europe does not have enough money.

They seem to have enough to send overseas and to spend on illegal economic migrants.

>Private sector often does not fund projects like these as they have bad return on investment.

Then why does the private sector in the US fund projects like these?

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#136

Post by jpdus »

FanaHOVA wrote: post #30
jpdus wrote: post #13

As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…

The problem is that: - These are not really super computing cluster in LLM terms. Leonardo is a 250 PFlops cluster. That is really not much at all. - If people in charge of this project actually believe R1 costs $5.5M to build from scratch, it's already over.

I think no one believes that R1 costs $5.5m from scratch. People in this project (most, not all) are very aware of the realities in training and are very well connected in the US as well. Besides Leonardo there are JUWELS, LUMI & other which can be used for ablations and so on.

This will never compete with what the frontier labs have (+ are building) but might be just enough for something, that is close enough to be a useful alternative :).

PS: Huge fan of Latent Space :)

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#137

Post by qqqult »

bayindirh wrote: post #107
isoprophlex wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yeah uh you don't understand how this works. I don't have the time to tell you why, just believe me, it works. Oh also they give us money." I'm not entirely convinced...

Sorry, you know, I have work to do, so I can't spend an hour and write a blog post for you here. Plus, I'm not here to convince anybody. I'm just sharing my own experience. It's up to you to dig further if you're so interested in this thing. Have a nice day.

That would have been a somewhat reasonable (although unconvincing) reply if you didn't also write 7 other lengthy comments in this thread that were 3 hours apart

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#138

Post by flanked-evergl »

Academia in Europe is a black hole which turns money into pipe dreams that has no practical application. It's really sad and frustrating, because so many of the pipe dreams sound cool, but it's clear that the people working in academia has no sense for what is needed for industry. The quality of the software they write is shockingly bad, and they have no interest in improving it because they only care about using it for academia anyway. It's like a walled garden where people get fat of poor people who keep everything going, just how it has always been.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#139

Post by flanked-evergl »

wg0 wrote: post #44

United we stand, divided we fall. More than LLMs, Europe needs chip autonomy. ASAP. Own fabs, own IP.

Europe as a project is over, it's all downhill from here. You can't regulate yourself into economic growth, and there is nothing else the Eurocrats care to do. There is still lots of fat in the land that they can leech off before Europe kicks the bucket.
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