The UK has been in a similar situation. We have a ship building industry plan and it seems to be going ok. Top of the range ships like type 26 are massive, expensive and cutting edge so will take time to build and commission. So what we've done is gone and brought an off the shelf design (Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate) and started building it. It's not cutting edge or massive, it should need less crew and most of it's system should be off the shelf. The first in class was paid in April 2022 and is to be launched this year with an inservice date of early 2027. To compare that against the first in class of the type 26, that was laid down on 2027 and is looking to be in service at the same time as the first type31!
We're also building nuclear subs as well!
The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
51–60 of 469 posts
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…
> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?
Well if you look at history it is a story of almost continuous war so it would be very optimistic indeed not to consider it.
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…
> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?
The general advice with respect to conflict strategies is to base your plans on what your (current or potential) adversary is capable of, not what you believe their intentions are.
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#54Didn't warfare changed big enough that big navy might be more obsolete? Ukraine-Russia conflict showed that you can make hordes of cheap naval drones that can easily harass your very expensive ships or put them out of combat. By now probably you can still make more advanced but cheaper underwater drones, smart torpedos etc.
The jeune ecole thought that torpedoes and small torpedo boats would doom battleships; they were wrong. People thought SAMs would end bombers, and anti-tank missiles would end tanks. There’s always a new weapon, but it doesn’t mean the old ones are obsolete.
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…
> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?
This kind of strategic, war is always possible, thinking is deeply embedded into US institutional-governmental culture and in US education. It's part of the quasi-fascistic thinking that was assimilated by the entire population - independent of political leaning - during the Cold War.
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#56This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. War planners should have pushed to repeal the Jones Act decades ago, but now Chinese shipbuilding capacity is over 230 times greater than ours because of their success in civilian shipbuilding. The proposed measures in this aricle are too little too late. The only logical course of action at…
I think when it comes to Naval Power the US's grand strategy throughout the modern era has mostly been based on the fact that the continental US is, de facto, a (very) big island when it comes to the connections with the rest of the world. So, in the event of a new world war they would have two options: one, maintain naval power superiority and thus ensure that the things that the US needs to come from over-seas stil…
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Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?
looking at this from the other side of the world, it feels like americans are so insecure, as if they are constantly frightened
And who would ever even attack the US? Massive military spending and they are isolated from all the potential enemies behind two huge oceans. Average american should worry about civil war or maybe nukes. Nothing else will ever reach them.
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. This is what politicians just don’t seem to realise about industry and engineering. People get good at things by doing them repeatedly and optimising. That’s the only proven way. So of course if we build a couple of naval ships every decade, maybe a giant train line every 30 years or simil…
> If we ever did get in a war with them is that normal to think like this? do most americans think like this?
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Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#59[dead]
Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
looking at this from the other side of the world, it feels like americans are so insecure, as if they are constantly frightened
And who would ever even attack the US? Massive military spending and they are isolated from all the potential enemies behind two huge oceans. Average american should worry about civil war or maybe nukes. Nothing else will ever reach them.
They may not attack the US directly like the Japanese did, but China may want to take over its neighbours to expand. Just like Russia could.