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US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

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Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#131

Post by jameslk »

The bill is political theater and this article is playing into it.

A downloaded model that can be run on US servers is covered by the first amendment as free speech. This is not the same circumstance as the law that required TikTok divest of its platform, which was over spying concerns[0]. You can’t spy on Americans when data is kept on US servers.

0. Per the TikTok Supreme Court ruling:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-656_ca7d.pdf

There is no doubt that, for more than 170 million Americans, TikTok offers a distinctive and expansive outlet for expression, means of engagement, and source of community. But Congress has determined that divestiture is necessary to address its well-supported national security concerns regarding TikTok’s data collection practices and relationship with a foreign adversary. For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the challenged provisions do not violate petitioners’ First Amendment rights.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#132

Post by majormajor »

Defletter wrote: post #109
stouset wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concerns are about adversarial foreign governments being able to silently target messages to highly-influenced demographics en masse. I swear I have heard zero people opposed to the ban who seem to even be vaguely aware of that aspect which is the entire actual issue , and instead are completely confused and think it’s about spyware or hacking. Whether or not you agree with the ban, we need to actually be discuss…

That is speech. I'm sorry but I have yet to see a single person who makes this point admit that it's a form of speech suppression. This is classic First Amendment precedent. Just because the speaker is someone you don't like, or its content is anti-American (or what have you), doesn't mean it's not protected speech.

What? Many people just don't think the First Amendment applies to foreign nations. (Why would it??) And that restrictions on corporate control/structure for the US-based parts are not speech issues (e.g. imagine if free speech was a defense against an anti-trust prosecution).

The simplest case for banning TikTok is simple reciprocity. China is no longer a market that needs the level of protectionism they currently have to develop. The second best is data privacy. Just a shame they won't apply the same to US companies yet. And then an additional reason is the one that's being used currently - risk of foreign influence. You'd hate to not ban it "because it hasn't happened yet" just for it to happen in the future. China keeping out US apps seems to have worked out great for their local industry, I'm hardly convinced it wouldn't also be a good thing for US citizens. And with the foreign-country thing tossing Constitutional issues out the window, go nuts.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#133

Post by epolanski »

theossuary wrote: post #81
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truly, what do you even do as the CCP or some other party that would like to spread anti-American propaganda? Literally just point to the actual, factual state of this country and tell me it isn't a rolling joke.

Thats how most propaganda works. Russia, for example, has been publicizing cases of extreme racism in the US for years to demoralize black people. [1] Hell this has been going on since WWII, when other countries saw how the US treated their black troops, and used it to damage loyalty. [2] Nothing works like the truth, if the US could just stop being so racist it'd be that much harder to divide us. It seems like that'…

US is a racist country though, at least at the government level. See how BLM and January 6th demonstrations got treated.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#134

Post by aragonite »

gruez wrote: post #126
aragonite wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ranking member (senior Democrat) on the intelligence committee voted against the ban ( https://www.ctinsider.com/columnist/article/tiktok-ban-jim-h... ): > One key for him is that it’s only a possible threat. Our best intelligence, including in a briefing for Congress from the Biden administration Tuesday, is that the Chinese government has not actually done the things the ban fears. Also, from a recent All-In in…

>The ranking member (senior Democrat) on the intelligence committee voted against the ban ( https://www.ctinsider.com/columnist/article/tiktok-ban-jim-h ...): But he voted yes on the subsequent vote? https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2024145 Moreover your factoid is misleading because it omits the fact that the chair voted for the ban, along with most of the members. Of the 25 members on the committee, only 4 voted again…

He voted against the March bill that narrowly focuses on the TikTok issue, but voted for the April bill which also includes foreign aid for Ukraine and Israel. They are not the same bill.

> The decision by House Republicans to include TikTok as part of a larger foreign aid package, a priority for President Joe Biden with broad congressional support for Ukraine and Israel, fast-tracked the ban after an earlier version had stalled in the Senate. A standalone bill with a shorter, six-month selling deadline passed the House in March by an overwhelming bipartisan vote as both Democrats and Republicans voiced national security concerns about the app’s owner, the Chinese technology firm ByteDance Ltd. (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/possible-u-s-tiktok-ba...)

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#135

Post by dylan604 »

gruez wrote: post #115
dylan604 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, 6 months is still more time than 0 time. Not sure your point with this comparison

Last time I checked, entering an (unlocked) IT closet, using it to DoS a site and continuing to do so despite being IP banned a few times is slightly more serious than "some kid downloading a model".

Yes, but all the way back to the top of this specific thread was 34 felonies got 0 months. You're now comparing 6 months against a hypothetical where nothing has actually happened.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#139

Post by CorpOverreach »

cebert wrote: post #21

While he’s at it, he should also make cryptography and math illegal too.

For those that don't get the reference or remember their history... this is exactly what the US has been trying to do since the Cold War eras. [1]

It's absurd, and while it was mostly reformed in the last 1990's, parts of it still linger around.

There's also plenty of good stories from it too, like how Bruce Schneier's "Applied Cryptography" was approved for export, but the exact source code that was it in, but on a floppy drive, was not. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th... [2] https://www.ka9q.net/export/

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