Earlier quoted context omitted.
A significant proportion of the "academic approach" is actually a third one: artificial intelligence is the analysis and implementation of rational decision-making. That approach tends to care neither about biological accuracy, nor believability in a Turing-test sense. Rather, it cares about whether its decisions are correct based on evidence available to the decision-maker. That's the kind of attitude you most often…
Too bad humans aren't rational.
Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
81–90 of 152 posts
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#82I picture Chomsky as Kepler, trying to build orbits out of Platonic solids. Until Kepler had access to Brahe's data, he was not going to be able to come up with his theories of planetary motions. Worse than that, the laws of planetary motion present a simplistic view of the universe: what happens when a bunch of small objects orbit a very massive object. I think they wouldn't help you out at all, in trying to underst…
But there is a WHY associated with F= G* m1 * m2 / r^2 -- an explanation for why gravity exists, which although isn't yet unified with quantum mechanics, is that mass deforms space. The statistical formula is cool on its own right though too of course -- because of its elegance. However, a concise formula without an explanation is less interesting, and an enormous statistical model without any elegance or insight (pe…
Second, you don't know WHY mass deforms space. You don't know why some particles have mass, and others don't. You don't know how space is deformed by mass.
You wouldn't even have that explanation, "mass deforms space," without starting from the mathematical models. The mathematical models came about by studying the observed data.
Remember, people thought that cannon balls moved in a straight line, until they ran out of energy, and then they fell straight down. That was a perfectly valid view of the universe, given the observations available at the time. It even allowed you to make predictions about how far a cannonball would go, if you gave it different amounts of energy. It was also wrong.
We then cleverly figured out that the cannon ball moves in a parabola, with gravity as a constant force, pulling the cannonball down. Also wrong.
Now we know that the gravitational force exerted on the cannonball by the Earth is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. Meaning that you can put a cannonball in orbit, or you can even get it to escape Earth's gravity well.
Knowing "mass deforms space" doesn't help you make any of those predictions. How it deforms space does. And we, in fact, figured out that it deforms space, before we had any idea WHY, or by which mechanism.
Again, my problem with Chomsky is that he thinks we will come up with "mass deforms space," and Kepler's laws of planetary motion, before we even make any observations about the natural world.
Or rather, given our ability to measure huge quantities of text, it seems absurd that Chomsky would have us ignore the corpus, and go back to first principles as the exclusive and only way to gain any insight, be able to make any predictions, before we build any applications.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#83I spent about ten years working on Markov based chat programs. I gave up on themwhen I realized that no matter how sophisticated your statistical model it will never be more than a statistical analysis of text, unless it includes some rich rule based model of mental processes and mental objects. It may be that such a model of mental processes must itself be fuzzy and probabilistic, but it must exist. Therefore I come…
The fact that Markov chains are by definition memoryless isn't an argument in favor Chomsky or magical thinking. Sure, if you want to improve your output you can use (n+1)grams instead of n-grams, but the curse of dimensionality is going to quickly catch up with you. Language smoothing will help for a little while. Over a long enough horizon all Markov chain output is jibberish. None of these obvious limitations are…
Fundamentally it is gibberish not for any simple algorithmic reason, but because generation is occurring without any respect to context or meaning beyond what randomly emerges from the graceful juxtaposition of randomly chosen words. It is purely about the combinations of words (in that sense, syntax). This shouldn't be surprising - who ever actually expected that generating a kind of syntax model would result in coherent thoughts? At most it can generate texts like weird dreams, it shouldn't be surprising that the result is not a cogent discussion of current events.
This does not mean that the same information cannot be used in more sophisticated ways. But these wouldn't be a Markov chatbot. The Markov model would effectively be a component in a larger system that needed to use words. It isn't at all clear that the Markov model is the best possible one, but it is just groundless dogma to insist that learning can't have anything to do with real performance.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#84OK, let me start with two facts, one objective, one personal: (i) Noam Chomsky is a genius with many contributions to linguistics and computer science (ii) I think his overall influence had been damaging to linguistics. Here's a summary of Chomsky's career in layman's terms: As everyone knows, Chomsky first came to prominence with his critique of Skinner (who, as everyone also knows, was a total psycho). He pretty mu…
You cant label something as a fact then proceed to say "I think". (ii) is poorly defended. You set out to outline Chomsky's long and engaging political life just so that you can say that it influenced his linguistic theory. Chomsky himself have said many times that there is no clear correlation between his linguistic work and political activism. This is not new. He has been asked this in a lot of talks. with this sai…
My gripe is not against Chomsky, the person, but against Chomsky-ism (although he does have a very aggressive, know-it-all tone when discussing many subjects, that I find at odds with scientific humility). This is common: A pioneer comes up with a new way of thinking, then it is accepted as dogma by the community. Although one may think otherwise, this is also very common in science. Scientific revolutions usually don't happen with paradigm shifts but through the demise of old age of the new theory's opponents.
What's shocking is that a field like linguistics, which some may argue is more scientifically rigorous than its sister humanities disciplines, operated on what, to me, are speculative assumptions for close to 40 years.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#85It is an interesting debate, though I think it's being shone in the wrong light. According to the article, it almost sounds like Chomsky believes a statistical approach to AI is a disservice to the field. The point he's missing is that research in statistical based AI is just that - statistics research. Chomsky and Norvig deal in two different fields, which happen to have similar applications. Norvig does research in…
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#86I picture Chomsky as Kepler, trying to build orbits out of Platonic solids. Until Kepler had access to Brahe's data, he was not going to be able to come up with his theories of planetary motions. Worse than that, the laws of planetary motion present a simplistic view of the universe: what happens when a bunch of small objects orbit a very massive object. I think they wouldn't help you out at all, in trying to underst…
I think it is the other way around. Chomsky is trying to find the underlying structure of intelligence (just like gravity underlies planetary motion), and is saying that others are simply trying to generate a model of intelligence (through statistical methods) with no understanding of why the intelligence behaves that way. Gravity is the why, planetary motion is the model produced by data (acquired by Brahe).
The only thing that could possibly break you out of that way of thinking is massive amounts of observational analysis to show you that your foundation is flawed.
Seeing the moons of Jupiter revolutionized physics. Chomsky says that observing the heavens is unnecessary, and a distraction from his studying of the motion of billiards balls.
He's got trigonometry down cold, but he'll never come up with calculus that way. And quantum mechanics would never fall into Chomsky's way of thinking, in my analogy.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#87Well, in the big picture, Chomsky created an activity which keeps liguists very busy. His approach, however, has contributed very little to language engineering.
Do you mean specifically of human languages? Because Chomsky's approach has contributed pretty extensively to programming language engineering, as the foundation of parsing theory and the whole formal language hierarchy (context-free, context-sensitive, regular, etc.). I do agree it's been less successful for its original intended purpose, but things often find new life, which seems okay.
Chomsky is incredibly strong on anything that does not require empirical data.
But UG has no legs and Chomsky's analysis of syntax has very limited applicability and after many many IOUs, pretty much no empirical claims have panned out in any significant way.
If you take away the application of those basic computer science concepts to language, you unfortunately take away most of what Chomsky has written regarding linguistics, psychology and AI. Because of the sheer volume of output, that leaves a number of contributions. My point is that it is necessary to be discriminating rather than making Chomsky into the Pope, as certain fields have done for some time.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#88Intellectually, there seems to be something as wrong with avoiding anthropomorphism when discussing human endeavors (such as language) as there is with anthropomorphic explanations of erosion or chemical reactions. Skinnarian approaches to language may leave people unsatisfied because there is no story, just clinical observation. Norvig's approach (as characterized in the article) takes the the "Artificial" in "Artif…
The reason most people are unsatisfied with Skinner's approach to language is that they did not read Verbal Behavior, but rather Chomsky's review; and because Chomsky chose it (as among Skinner's weakest work) and reviewed it in the most uncharitable way possible, without understanding any of the basic concepts or motivations to Skinner's approach.
So, for example, he successfully associates Skinner directly with Watson, and makes it out that "radical" behaviorism is radical not for its rejection of premises of classical behaviorism but for being even more crazy.
That review is a masterpiece of propaganda and it effectively prevented Skinner's basic ideas from even being seriously evaluated ever again.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#89OK, let me start with two facts, one objective, one personal: (i) Noam Chomsky is a genius with many contributions to linguistics and computer science (ii) I think his overall influence had been damaging to linguistics. Here's a summary of Chomsky's career in layman's terms: As everyone knows, Chomsky first came to prominence with his critique of Skinner (who, as everyone also knows, was a total psycho). He pretty mu…
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Too bad humans aren't rational.
They aren't, but not all AI is aimed at mimicking human behavior. For example, if your goal is an AI system that can automatically control ship routing on the global Maersk shipping network (planning routes, rerouting to respond to contingencies, etc.), you might want "optimal" rather than "human-like" decision making.