They have two different definitions of "artificial intelligence," which is where the schism seems to be arising from. Chomsky takes the academic approach - artificial intelligence is the simulation of humanlike (or even possibly mammalian) intelligence. Norvig is taking the engineering approach - artificial intelligence needs only to pass the Turing test. They're both right, both approaches have value, and they both…
A significant proportion of the "academic approach" is actually a third one: artificial intelligence is the analysis and implementation of rational decision-making. That approach tends to care neither about biological accuracy, nor believability in a Turing-test sense. Rather, it cares about whether its decisions are correct based on evidence available to the decision-maker. That's the kind of attitude you most often…
Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
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Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#72As an example of the power of symbolic approaches, my parser has a complete symbolic analysis of English auxillary verb constructions, producing unique, meaning-rich, RDF-compatible semantics for:
I am learning about computers.
We are learning about computers.
We will be learning about computers.
I could be learning about computers.
I have been learning about computers.
I better learn about computers.
I had better learn about computers.
I dare learn about computers.
I did learn about computers.
I do learn about computers.
He does learn about computers.
I had learned about computers.
He has learned about computers.
I have learned about computers.
He is learning about computers.
I need learning about computers.
I ought to learn about computers.
I ought to be learning about computers.
I used to learn about computers.
I was learning about computers.
We were learning about computers.
Because of the so-far limited success of my work, I am inclined to agree with Chomsky's AI argument despite using a modern grammar opposed to his linguistic principles.
An artificial intelligence will use both statistical techniques and symbolic, e.g. procedural techniques, I think. With the most useful intelligent behavior being symbolic. E.g. an AI designing, writing and testing software.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#73OK, let me start with two facts, one objective, one personal: (i) Noam Chomsky is a genius with many contributions to linguistics and computer science (ii) I think his overall influence had been damaging to linguistics. Here's a summary of Chomsky's career in layman's terms: As everyone knows, Chomsky first came to prominence with his critique of Skinner (who, as everyone also knows, was a total psycho). He pretty mu…
> I detest politically motivated scientific theories Then you detest every scientific theory ever devised.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#74This is one of those rare moments in intellectual life where being in the room and now seeing the debate develop, it becomes clear that the resulting hype isn't (wasn't) loud enough. This distinction marks the real turning point in AI from abstract, grand claims with highly restrictive evidence toward engineering that simply works. Who cares about the ontology when we can recreate? It's like saying airplanes don't pr…
I don't think I would take that strident battle-against-dinosaurs view, in part because I think intellectually understanding things is useful in and of itself, not some kind of "just build it and shut up" anti-intellectual view; and also because I don't think it's an accurate summary of the history of AI. There's no particular reason we can't both build and study things in various ways, and the history of AI has been…
It's become increasingly clear that Chomsky's approach to language is not going to generalize to AI successes or explanations of many domains of human performance, as was promised. That approach has not yielded fruitfully anywhere except the narrow realm of syntax (in particular typologies of syntax). While machine learning has kicked butt left and right.
There is no reason people can't go on studying syntax at the same time machine learning expands. But it would be dishonest to ignore the extreme and exclusive claims laid down by Chomsky's school at the outset of the cognitive revolution. These claims were given a very liberal benefit of the doubt for decades. A lot of good work has been done in syntax. But now those claims about AI and psychology-in-general are clearly threadbare, since they have not yielded the promised fruits either in AI or in explaining human functions. They have not even yielded plausible IOUs. Remember, this was supposed to explain pretty much everything. Not even language acquisition has been explained.
That is empirical inadequacy. Who cares if Chomsky thinks it's beautiful?
And it's equally clear that learning of various kinds has to occur and also gives us the more parsimonious and elegant solutions to problems (no-solution and no-explanation is not elegant even if it is simpler).
Machine learning has a great deal of conceptual beauty - if you study it rather than pooh-poohing it because of some facile abductive argument to UG.
Computing power isn't a problem. The scale of the human brain is enormous and we are still nowhere near reaching it with our computational resources.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Children are definitely not a 'blank' neural network. They spend ~6 months staring off into nowhere, looking, listening, and slowly developing the skills to respond to their environment.
A newborn baby will recoil away from a dark circle growing larger on a screen. Where did he learn to associate a growing share with an object approaching near enough to collide? We have certain built in behaviors and reflexes.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#76I spent about ten years working on Markov based chat programs. I gave up on themwhen I realized that no matter how sophisticated your statistical model it will never be more than a statistical analysis of text, unless it includes some rich rule based model of mental processes and mental objects. It may be that such a model of mental processes must itself be fuzzy and probabilistic, but it must exist. Therefore I come…
The state of the art is improving a bit, although this method still knows nothing of meaning so it can often generate some strange sentences. Still, I wouldn't write off the whole field yet--just because something didnt work with tools years ago doesn't mean it isn't possible.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#77They have two different definitions of "artificial intelligence," which is where the schism seems to be arising from. Chomsky takes the academic approach - artificial intelligence is the simulation of humanlike (or even possibly mammalian) intelligence. Norvig is taking the engineering approach - artificial intelligence needs only to pass the Turing test. They're both right, both approaches have value, and they both…
But what exactly is true artificial intelligence? For example, I consider Google search and Wolfram alpha very intelligent. They can do math, answer questions, rank information, follow current events, ...
There is a lot more involved than just language. It seems possible to solve language and still not create "strong AI." See: Watson kicking ass at Jeopardy. That is pretty sophisticated language comprehension; it even got clues that involved puns and wordplay.
From that it would seem totally possible to adapt this sort of intelligence to taking an IQ test. Just provide the right corpus to search and give the algorithms time to learn and be tuned. What if Watson tests out at a 150 IQ? Is he "intelligent"? After all it is an "intelligence quotient."
I think most people would say no, the issue is the Turing Test. That involves language, but I think the real point is an artificial personality: a computer that can hold a conversation and evince a discernible will and opinion. It seems to me that to do that, the machine must have emotions. I'm no expert in the field, but from my layman's position I don't see nearly as many stories about studying and replicating emotions as I do about human language.
Which is funny because any dog owner knows that dogs, despite having almost no formal language, are clearly willful, independent, emotional living beings. Can we even simulate a dog's emotional state with a computer? How about a bug's emotional state? I haven't heard much about that. But there is a ton of heat around language.
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#78This is one of those rare moments in intellectual life where being in the room and now seeing the debate develop, it becomes clear that the resulting hype isn't (wasn't) loud enough. This distinction marks the real turning point in AI from abstract, grand claims with highly restrictive evidence toward engineering that simply works. Who cares about the ontology when we can recreate? It's like saying airplanes don't pr…
> There isn't one algorithm in the human mind to decode all of our mental capabilities. Careful here. There could be one algorithm, but we may not be able to express its parameters in the way we like to for simple models. These statistical approaches are algorithms . It's the fact that we can't make sense of the parameters that seems to lead people to believe that they don't explain anything. The fact that we can't c…
But they amount to learning and search. And because of the politics of Chomsky's movement, it has always fought the concept of learning tooth and nail in favor of innate knowledge or ready-made models. This is why we talk about language "acquisition" and why we read Chomsky saying that contemporaries who studied learning were facilitating totalitarianism.
It's also worth mentioning that Chomsky has stated that he does not think the brain has evolved.
So however many algorithms there are (and however they are employed to get the vast array of intelligent human actions) many things you have said here are totally anathema to Chomsky's school.
It was pushed too hard, it overextended and only now has any challenge come to it - from the quarter of AI. (Up until a few years ago, fighting it in academic Psychology meant you were OK with killing your career, and anyone less respectable than Norvig would get torn apart - look at what they are saying about Norvig now).
Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#79Re: Norvig vs. Chomsky and the Fight for the Future of AI
#80I spent about ten years working on Markov based chat programs. I gave up on themwhen I realized that no matter how sophisticated your statistical model it will never be more than a statistical analysis of text, unless it includes some rich rule based model of mental processes and mental objects. It may be that such a model of mental processes must itself be fuzzy and probabilistic, but it must exist. Therefore I come…
Did you produce a better chat bot based on UG? - No? Then on what basis are you junking machine learning?
Machine translation is far from a solved problem. But Chomsky's school claimed they were going to solve it in the 60s or perhaps the 70s. Do you know what is the basis for the most successful current approach to machine translation?
Analysis of text. (But not the kind of simplistic junk one does in a Markov chatter)
All you have done is suggest that some beautiful perfect text model exists natively in every person. (Presumably this evolved somehow - or if you are Chomsky, it just developed like a crystal for no apparent reason). This isn't an explanation of anything unless you actually find that model instantiated in the brain. But this is just not happening. So either our instruments are still too crude to detect it, or it's not really there.
Appealing to an as-yet unknown perfect universal text model does not build a better chat bot or a better explanation of human behavior.
True understanding of intelligence must incorporate an understanding of how learning occurs. Because anyone who watches children sees learning occurring, and only doctrinaire Chomskyists deny that it occurs (because it is not beautiful enough and some abductive argument is claimed to show that it is not sufficient).