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Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

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Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t read Anki source unless your work is GPL. Could you share the insights yourself?

Not all of Anki's source code is GPL. The FSRS implementation used within Anki is BSD, for example.

I know, my message is about referencing FSRS usage rather than its implementation

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#152
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the suggestion. The code is open sourced at https://github.com/runarberg/shodoku I think you were browsing the cards and using the quick navigation to go to another card in the same deck. When you actually review the cards using the SRS system to review the cards (the big “Review” button), there is a setting (in the settings view) to enable fuzz (a small random delay; defaults to on) which will effectively…

> I think you were browsing the cards and using the quick navigation to go to another card in the same deck. Yes, I was just looking at how it works because I liked how you presented your design principles. My personal design principle is to minimize friction and allow immersion to concentrate on the task and not on the navigation. > I actually had been using it for a couple of months without fuzz and just random noi…

> You have made a very cool project

Thanks, I appreciate it ;)

> Keyboard shortcuts

It is on my missing feature list.

Another missing feature is next or previous stroke buttons (and keyboard shortcuts). I want to be able to use this flawlessly on a device without a touch screen, where you simply draw the kanji on a peace of paper (or even your palm). Users that use it like that should be able to benefit from stroke hints as well.

On the vocab list, the purpose is to give you some example words which you can use to learn the reading. I usually bookmark 1-3 words in my first writing practice, which will then appear at the top of the vocab list for later reviews, I will than try to learn along with the kanji. Another missing feature is integration with Anki proper. I would like to quickly create a vocab card for that word and add it to my Anki deck (I would rather not use this app for vocab practice). My current ordering of the vocab words is kind of a mess, I do some JLPT word-list prioritization. Having the most basic words on top. randomizing could be a good feature here. Another could be alternate sorting for the vocab words, or even a search bar.

I actually just host this on github pages, so I don’t have access to access logs (or I don‘t know how to access them). In the near future this is going to be a progressive web app with a hard cache of all the assets (which I generate into static assets from an sqlite3 database on my own machine) so you could actually use this offline with if you previously browsed the kanji.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#153
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried Anki since FSRS was introduced? If not, may be worth giving it another shot.

I did. It gave me absurdly long intervals. It kind of assumed that since I can remember some things easily (usually because I learned them outside of Anki), it totally makes sense to assume that about everything. I tried anki multiple times, ended up disliking it each time. FSRF did not made it better.

In my experience, the long intervals can freak you out at the beginning. You might think that it's just stupid and not possible to have that long intervals ("I will remember that in 3 years!?").

But in practice long intervals are shortened when you answer wrong once or more, or when you mark the answer as "hard" when it actually takes time for you to recall a card.

For me FSRF really work well, sometimes I see cards that I feel are really showing quite often and when I check the card history it usually shows that I had some "again"/"hard" answers in some recent past, and because of that these intervals and not increasing that much.

Plus you can also always increase "desired retention" from default 90%. You will have shorter intervals, but it will of course increase number of the reviews too.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#154
post #33
post #10

I have been wondering about this in the context of being ready for work in the age of LLM‘s. What nobody can deny is that they memorize information at a superhuman level, so it might reduce the value of having done that myself. On the other hand, “couldn’t you just google that“has been an erroneous retort to the value of space repetition for decades, during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing. has been a er…

What you remember becomes part of your thinking and reasoning. So no, why would you google something if it doesn’t come to mind as something relevant.

it doesn't have to become part of your thinking and reasoning, even in context, even though it does carry some actual weight. because it can be (over)shadowed. something that some people currently learn to code into LLMs, if I understood layering and quantization more or less superficially correct.

so, you might want to google it, because some part in the back of your head itches to remember something that is actually relevant and located on the rim (of the knowledge graph) of something that you do remember.

fucked up indexing. an 8 hour rabbit hole and that one of 43 links you didn't open in a new tab.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#155
post #35

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but: of all the really brilliant people I've ever met, interacted with or learned from, I haven't heard of anyone that used techniques like this. Like, the way they learn things and become brilliant is the exact same way every brilliant person has done it for thousands of years: they read books, they discuss and debate with other brilliant people, they study their subjects and…

Off the top of my head: John Carmack and Derek Sivers are Anki users. I've met a ton of brilliant people at Olympiads who use Anki, and you'll find heavy usage from people who rank #1 in highly competitive exams (JEE Advanced, Cambridge Medicine etc...). I graduated top of my class, and I attribute this to consistent Anki usage But, of course: there's a subset of truly incredible people who don't need it. I've met so…

My understanding is that Anki is pretty much used by every single medical student, at least in the U.S. It's the perfect applications for retaining massive amounts of information just long enough to pass med school and board exams. Look at this: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschoolanki/ -- 166k followers.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#157
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning isn't only about becoming brilliant. For me personally, spaced repetition is one of the best tools to aid language learning. Classes and such are great for your main progression, but spaced repetition is the way to make the vocabulary actually stick.

Actually consuming content in any form is even better.

Does consuming content include watching movies/shows in the language? For me, I can state with high certainty that simply watching a lot of movies or shows in the language I was learning did absolutely nothing to help my vocabulary compared to using anki. If by consuming content you meant taking a specific movie/episode and breaking it down, studying it relentlessly, and moving on to the next after you've seen it 20 times and practically have it memorized, then maybe that would've helped? It would've meant I learned a different set of things than I studied though, which is not too useful come exam time (quite possibly more useful in real life though).

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head: John Carmack and Derek Sivers are Anki users. I've met a ton of brilliant people at Olympiads who use Anki, and you'll find heavy usage from people who rank #1 in highly competitive exams (JEE Advanced, Cambridge Medicine etc...). I graduated top of my class, and I attribute this to consistent Anki usage But, of course: there's a subset of truly incredible people who don't need it. I've met so…

My understanding is that Anki is pretty much used by every single medical student, at least in the U.S. It's the perfect applications for retaining massive amounts of information just long enough to pass med school and board exams. Look at this: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschoolanki/ -- 166k followers.

We have a reasonable source for 70%[0].

There are a number of anti-Anki users (and to be honest, I don't blame them: there's 30k+ cards that they should learn in the 'meta' decks, and our onboarding is lacking). They've got an abusive workload.

The longer I'm US med-adjacent, the more jaded I become. There's continuing score creep, and this is due to the bar being raised[1], in order to maintain a failure rate.

I believe there's systematic academic misconduct due to the pressure to publish. The AVERAGE successfully matched neurosurgery resident has 37.4 research items (papers/presentations/abstracts)[2].

[0] https://www.cureus.com/articles/70371-an-analysis-of-anki-us...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gKKAZ5aO8E [mean score in 2022-3 was 248. This was a 99th percentile score in 1993-4. Mean student in 1993-4 would no longer meet the passing score, exams are not getting easier]

[2] https://medschoolinsiders.com/medical-student/how-many-publi...

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because realistically doing your Anki cards should take 10-30 minutes a day, maximum. If you can’t slog through 30 minutes of learning vocabulary/etc. then the thing you’re learning isn’t very important to you. SRS isn’t about doing flash cards for hours on end, it’s about determining the maximum retention rate while doing the minimum amount of work. Even then, personally I don’t find Anki that boring at all. But I m…

You know what is more effective than spaced repitition? Reading, listening, and doing to the thing you are interested in. Anki gives you fact that are disjointed from what you need. using the skill forces a study of what is important not facts that are of no use. i'm not saying spaced repititon is useless - it is a great beginners tool. However you need to move on as soon as possible. once you can use the skill that…

> You know what is more effective than spaced repitition? Reading, listening, and doing to the thing you are interested in.

No, they are not more effective, they are less effective. The fact that they are less effective is the only reason that people do spaced repetition. It takes less time to learn a fact if you optimize for the way memory works. Reading, listening, and doing the thing you are interested in builds memory just like spaced repetition does, just in a haphazard, random way.

> note that reading/doing something is itself spaced repititon.

But worse. There are plenty of things that simply can't be learned by spaced repetition because nobody has come up with a good way to do them, and/or they are physical. But some facts simply have to be memorized, and when doing the thing you will have to recall them. You can either look them up every time you have to use them, and a) forget completely if there's too large a gap between incidents of having to look a thing up, or b) spend all day studying something that you'll completely forget in a week. Spaced repetition is about using a timing trick to make those facts reflexive and long-lasting.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall (2022)

#160
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aristotle, Leibniz, Einstein or whatever brilliant person you can think of didn't become who they are using cue-cards. Indeed, but I think that being relevant assumes that people using these techniques believe it will somehow make them brilliant/geniuses. > Spaced repetition always seemed like those schemes to get you fit or slim in 30 days that never work. I'm not arguing for spaced repetition, but the whole point…

> I'm not arguing for spaced repetition, but the whole point is you do some amount every day (or as needed) for the rest of your life (within reason). So it's not equivalent to get fit/slim quick at all, it's more about disciplined improvement of yourself. If that isn't effective for you don't do it, but based on your comment it seems like you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Fair enough, I haven't looked into s…

> they think memorizing all the world capitals was a way to improve your intelligence. It's not.

It definitely is. I don't understand the disdain for facts. If, when talking about a city, I know that it's a capital city, I am smarter than I would be if I did not know, and I have a better ability to participate in the conversation. If I know a bunch of constants (in whatever trade I work in) offhand, I can quickly do calculations in my head. Does knowing how many centimeters are in an inch make me smarter? Yes, it does. There was a reason why you memorized every letter in the alphabet.

> The way to do that is to just read books, study, work hard in your chosen field

Spaced repetition is literally just a way to study. You make the cards as you read books.

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