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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#271

Post by nejsjsjsbsb »

rdtsc wrote: post #2

> self-described “vegan Sith” ideology Had it not been in a serious article I would have believed it had to a parody or a joke of some sort. “We are just like Darth Maul, but we like salads and drink soy milk instead of regular milk… and then kill people while dressed in tactical black outfits”? What is even going on? Real life now sounds like some kinda of a broken LLM hallucination.

What is going on: the internet is letting you know all this shit. Imagine you had a ticker feed of every story amongst the 8bn. That would be a crazy story per millisecond.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#272

Post by idunnoman1222 »

lostdog wrote: post #176
rachofsunshine wrote: post #149

[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…

Wow, what a perfect description of why their probability-logic leads to silly beliefs. I've been wondering how to argue within their frame for a while, and here's what I've come up with: Is the likelihood that aliens exist, are unfriendly, and AGI will help us beat them higher or lower than the likelihood that the AGI itself that we develop is unfriendly to us and wants to FOOM us? Show your work.

They think they can predict the future by extension know what’s good for us. If they could choose you wouldn’t get a vote.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#273

Post by MathMonkeyMan »

mordae wrote: post #197

When will people learn to identify and stay away from narcissists?

Almost everybody does. But probably there will always be those who don't. Some people's lives are a sad story, and manipulators can learn who is most vulnerable.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#275

Post by Aurornis »

romaaeterna wrote: post #64

These people? https://nypost.com/2025/01/30/us-news/killing-of-border-patr... Is the appellation in the headline, "radical vegan trans cult," a true description? > Authorities now say the guns used by Youngblut and Bauckholt are owned by a person of interest in other murders — and connected to a mysterious cult of transgender “geniuses” who follow a trans leader named Jack LaSota, also known by the alias “Ziz.” Is al…

> Is the appellation in the headline, "radical vegan trans cult," a true description?

For this small group, yes. Their leader believes in Nuremberg-style trials for people who eat meat. If you want to go down the rabbit hole, it gets much weirder: https://zizians.info/

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#276

Post by hn2liberal4me »

nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

[dead]

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#277

Post by rexpop »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #242
codr7 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it mainly as a reaction to a dysfunctional and abusive system/culture, and not necessarily a constructive one. Fix the world and these problems don't exist.

>Fix the world and these problems don't exist. Hard disagree. Plenty of antisocial (or worse) behaviour has been promulgated by those indisputably at the top of the social food chain -- almost every war of conquest, for example. Did the British Empire expand throughout the world because the British felt marginalised? No, the rest of the world considered them to be a great power and many other cultures voluntarily ado…

> Plenty of antisocial (or worse) behaviour has been promulgated by those indisputably at the top of the social food chain.

This isn't a counterpoint to "fix the world," because those "at the top of the social food chain" are, of course, partners in an oppressor/oppressed dynamic that prevents both parties from realize their full human potential.

"As the oppressors dehumanize others and violate their rights, they themselves also become dehumanized," Freire says. In a sense, both parties are mutilated by the dynamic.

So "the top of the social food chain" is not a clean sample of a fixed world.

Sorry if I am talking past your point.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#278

Post by cvalka »

wat10000 wrote: post #264
cvalka wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's a variation of Pascal's Wager for morons.

I wouldn’t say it’s any worse or better than the original. It basically just swaps some names around.

It's late by hundreds of years. It introduces a lot of unnecessary complexity. The most sophisticated variation of the Wager I've encountered is the Taleb's diatribe against GMO.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#279

Post by snickerbockers »

adastra22 wrote: post #90
zozbot234 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost all the members of this group are trans. The Zizians.info site (linked by one of the HN posts re: this story) mentions that the Zizians did target people who identified as transgender for indoctrination, so this is not really surprising. People who are undergoing this kind of stress and marginalization may well be more vulnerable to such tactics.

The Ziz method of indoctrination involves convincing his minions they are trapped inside a mental framework they need to break free of. Trans people already feel trapped in a body not aligned with who they are, and are naturally susceptible to this message (and therefore natural targets for recruitment).

I was wondering if it's relevant that so many of them are young people with "data science" degrees and they call themselves "rationalists". Sounds like they have some sort of superiority complex that might make them more susceptible to justifying acts of violence when it's "rational".
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