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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#251

Post by nejsjsjsbsb »

nullc wrote: post #152
t_mann wrote: post #144

Rationalism? The term has been used a lot of times since Pythagoras [0], but the combination of Bay Area, Oxford, existential risks, AI safety makes it sound like this particular movement could have formed in the same mold as Effective Altruism and Long-Termism (ie, the "it's objectively better for humanity if you give us money to buy a castle in France than whatever you'd do with it" crowd that SBF sprung from). Can…

[flagged]

Wow. Didn't they learn about ecosystems at school. And who says they are suffering?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#252

Post by cvalka »

wat10000 wrote: post #246
DonHopkins wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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It’s hilarious to me that Roko’s Basilisk maps perfectly to Pascal’s Wager, but they just can’t see it. It’s like any other exclusive religion: your god is made up, ours is real.

Exactly. It's a variation of Pascal's Wager for morons.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#253

Post by nejsjsjsbsb »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #211
nejsjsjsbsb wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Split the beliefs from the crime. A bunch of murderers were caught. Given they are dangerous killers, one killing a witness and one faking their death yeah they should get warrants.

It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. Sometimes the beliefs are that certain crimes should be committed. This is a free country (disputably) and you should be able to think and say whatever you want, but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement.

Probable cause is the key term here.

Cops can do a lot without it. They can choose what leads to follow.

But not sure what you are suggesting with respect to wiretapping.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#255

Post by nataliste »

cluckindan wrote: post #247
nataliste wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you mean?

Making a rationalist community seem right-wing would - make right-wingers feel vindication as if they were rational all along, - cause suspicion and division within the left/liberal rationalist community, and - make the community, its people and their ideas less palatable to the general public.

Curious: Do you think J.D. Vance unintentionally dog-whistling a Scott Alexander article when he's on the Joe Rogan podcast was orchestrated or just what happened?[0]

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[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1ggl0mh/jd_...

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#256

Post by wat10000 »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #187
t_mann wrote: post #144

Rationalism? The term has been used a lot of times since Pythagoras [0], but the combination of Bay Area, Oxford, existential risks, AI safety makes it sound like this particular movement could have formed in the same mold as Effective Altruism and Long-Termism (ie, the "it's objectively better for humanity if you give us money to buy a castle in France than whatever you'd do with it" crowd that SBF sprung from). Can…

That castle was found to be more cost-effective than any other space the group could have purchased, for the simple reason that almost nobody wants castles anymore. It was chosen because it was the best calculation; the optics of it were not considered. It would be less disingenuous if you were to say EA is the "it's objectively better for humanity if you give us money to buy a conference space in France than whateve…

Nobody wants castles anymore because they’re impractical and difficult to maintain. It’s not some sort of taboo or psychological block, it’s entirely practical.

Actually, the fact that people think castles are cool suggests that the going price for them is higher than their concrete utility would make it, since demand would be boosted by people who want a castle because it’s cool.

Did these guys have some special use case where it made sense, or did they think they were the only ones smart enough to see that it’s actually worth buying?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#258

Post by nejsjsjsbsb »

gaze wrote: post #207
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #189

This whole rabbit hole of rationalism, less wrong, and ziz feels like a fever dream to me. Roaming trans veganist tatical death squads shooting border officers and stabbing 80 year olds with swords. This is the kind of thing where it is warranted that the feds gets every single wiretap, interception, and surveillance possible on everyone involved in the zizian movement.

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Your about tells me you could make this comment way more specifically and with evidence.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#259

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

Trasmatta wrote: post #65
romaaeterna wrote: post #64

These people? https://nypost.com/2025/01/30/us-news/killing-of-border-patr... Is the appellation in the headline, "radical vegan trans cult," a true description? > Authorities now say the guns used by Youngblut and Bauckholt are owned by a person of interest in other murders — and connected to a mysterious cult of transgender “geniuses” who follow a trans leader named Jack LaSota, also known by the alias “Ziz.” Is al…

The NY Post tried to frame them as "radical leftist", but that's a big stretch. I don't think most rationalists would consider themselves leftist. The article also seems to be leaning into the current "trans panic" - pretty typical for the NYP.

Many rationalists do consider themselves leftist. Many others do not. It's a big tent and anyone can wander in.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#260

Post by cvalka »

nataliste wrote: post #226
Aurornis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weird to see a community I followed show up so close to home and negatively like this. I had some coworkers who were really into LessWrong and rationality. I thought it was fun to read some of the selected writings they would share, but I always felt that online rationalist communities collected a lot of people with reactionary, fascist, misogynistic, and far-right tendencies. There’s a heavily sanitized version of…

Sophistry is actually really really old: >In the second half of the 5th century BCE, particularly in Athens, "sophist" came to denote a class of mostly itinerant intellectuals who taught courses in various subjects, speculated about the nature of language and culture, and employed rhetoric to achieve their purposes, generally to persuade or convince others. Nicholas Denyer observes that the Sophists "did ... have one…

I don't think Eleizer Yudkowsky has anything meaningful to say. He is a doomsday cult leader who happens to be fashionable in some circles.
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