What the fuck is this history The more I read, the more I'm confused
Its like four people from a wierd communuty doing violent shit, but online.
String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
151–160 of 952 posts
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#152Rationalism? The term has been used a lot of times since Pythagoras [0], but the combination of Bay Area, Oxford, existential risks, AI safety makes it sound like this particular movement could have formed in the same mold as Effective Altruism and Long-Termism (ie, the "it's objectively better for humanity if you give us money to buy a castle in France than whatever you'd do with it" crowd that SBF sprung from). Can…
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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
In what way is this supposed to be a relevant detail? Unless you think that they are killing people because they are trans, why should you report that they are part of a marginalized group? If they were mostly blondes or had freckles, should that be part of the story too?
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Posting slurs like this will get you banned here. Please don't do it again.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#154[flagged]
Could you please not use HN for ideological battle? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for, regardless of which ideology you're for or against.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's so much pushing an agenda, as it is avoiding a thermonuclear hot potato of modern life. If you start talking about gender identity, everyone has STRONG opinions they feel they must share. Worse, a subset of those opinions will be fairly extreme, and you're potentially exposing yourself to harassment or worse. If you sound like you're attacking trans people, that's going to end badly. If you sound l…
Yes, that's a reasonable possibility as well. It's not proof of an agenda, and might be prudent, but I do think it's a form of bias. There's a thin line between skipping "possibly superfluous" details and skipping core parts of a story that might provide evidence for viewpoints one disagrees with. The result is still that readers need to realize that they are being presented with a consciously edited narrative and no…
It was quite easy to skim over some original source material from both sinceriously.fyi and zizians.info. By my quick reading, and taking a very high level view, the philosophy is responsible for the trans and also for the violence. But an article harping on the correlation as implied causation without focusing on the hidden variable behind them both is just trying to fuel the fire of the reactionary movement. In general, averaging two different flavors of extremist reporting is not a way for obtaining truth.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#156What I find interesting about these cases and the seemingly unrelated United Healthcare CEO assassination is that all were committed by extremely online data scientists who went to elite universities. I’ve been fairly skeptical of the right wing narrative that these schools have been “radicalized” (seeing as universities and young people have always been the hotbeds of leftist thought, how soon we forget the hippie m…
Because the size is so small, you can connect many dots.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#157Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…
There is a well-documented correlation between gender dysphoria, mental health conditions, and autism spectrum disorder. These overlapping factors may contribute to increased vulnerability to manipulative groups, such as cults.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> almost all the members of this group are trans. The Zizians.info site (linked by one of the HN posts re: this story) mentions that the Zizians did target people who identified as transgender for indoctrination, so this is not really surprising. People who are undergoing this kind of stress and marginalization may well be more vulnerable to such tactics.
The Ziz method of indoctrination involves convincing his minions they are trapped inside a mental framework they need to break free of. Trans people already feel trapped in a body not aligned with who they are, and are naturally susceptible to this message (and therefore natural targets for recruitment).
They are also openly hated by general society and targeted for bullying by major political actors.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#159Yeah they're TPOT adjacent. While the original rationalists group were pretty good about watching their biases the later ones are more accurately rationalizers. Some TPOT people have warned them they're making mistakes to no avail.
It's just the MOPs, geeks, sociopaths and Eternal September thing again. They all use the jargon and reach absurd conclusions and don't have the wisdom to realize that an absurd conclusion with a sound argument means a false assumption.
Just because you say "my priors" like priests say "my prayers" doesn't make you rational. They are in the midwit area where you can reason.
The fool dismisses the absurd conclusion because he cannot reason. The wise man because he knows what it means. The average rationalist decides it's true.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
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If there was not a disproportionate number of trans people involved in these murders, then I hope that you can point to the specific elements of the story that were wrong.
If 80% of them happened to have blonde hair would you be talking down blonde people in this thread, too?
Correlation is literally not causation.