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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#101

Post by jdminhbg »

tsimionescu wrote: post #98
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

In what way is this supposed to be a relevant detail? Unless you think that they are killing people because they are trans, why should you report that they are part of a marginalized group? If they were mostly blondes or had freckles, should that be part of the story too?

Or what if they were rationalists? Would they include that in the headline?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#102

Post by fasthands9 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #98
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

In what way is this supposed to be a relevant detail? Unless you think that they are killing people because they are trans, why should you report that they are part of a marginalized group? If they were mostly blondes or had freckles, should that be part of the story too?

It seems as if the group targeted trans member in their recruitment - and then used evidence of general marginalization to justify their crimes.

If you look up old reddit threads about the murder of the landlord, you can see many people defending the crime as the landlord was transphobic. It's not just a random detail like freckles, it seems like the identity shaped the way this group interacted with the world.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#103

Post by duxup »

nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

Marginalized groups seem to be a target / susceptible to this kind of thing.

I had a weird encounter on reddit with some users who expressed that "only X people understand how this character in the movie feels". Interestingly, there was no indication that the movie intended this interpenetration. But the idea wasn't unusual or all that out there so I didn't think much of it. But that group showed up again and again and eventually someone asked and their theory all but seemed to imply that nobody else could possibly have ... feelings and that lack of understanding made those people lesser and them greater.

It seemed to come from some concept that their experience imparted some unique understanding that nobody else could have, and that just lead down a path that lead to zero empathy / understanding with anyone outside.

Reddit encounters are always hard to understand IMO so I don't want to read too much into it, but that isolation that some people / groups feel seem to potentially lead to dark places very easily / quickly.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#104

Post by almostdeadguy »

nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

Almost all are trans and all are rationalists. OK.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#105

Post by dang »

eqmvii wrote: post #100
dang wrote: post #84

After puzzling over the threads on this head-spinning story, my sense is that maybe the most neutral thing to do is re-up this submission of a news report and merge most of the comments hither. The other recent threads are/were: The Zizians (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42898323 The Zizians and the rationalist death cult - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42897871 Suspects in 2 murder cases shared…

i’ve seen so many posts about this on HN i can’t help but wonder if it’s a recruiting drive…

I'm sure it's just the usual sensationalism, but if there are other recent posts with comments, I'd appreciate links in case it makes sense to merge them.

Edit: incidentally, I hadn't seen anything about it on HN until today. A reminder of how much randomness affects these perceptions.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#106

Post by raverbashing »

zozbot234 wrote: post #87
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

> almost all the members of this group are trans. The Zizians.info site (linked by one of the HN posts re: this story) mentions that the Zizians did target people who identified as transgender for indoctrination, so this is not really surprising. People who are undergoing this kind of stress and marginalization may well be more vulnerable to such tactics.

Yup. 100% a cult indoctrination technique.

The vulnerability is the crowbar the cult uses

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#109

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

duxup wrote: post #96
morpheos137 wrote: post #92

Transgender technology cult that kills people somehow doesn't seem "rationalist" to me but who am I to judge.

With religion I think we largely just go with "this is what the group identifies themselves with / as" and leave it as that. Arguably the politically active "religious right" in the US has long since abandoned most everything Jesus had to offer. We still identify them as such.

They self-identify as such.

I call them "anti-Christians" because it's more biblically accurate.

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