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Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

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Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#41

Post by BlackFly »

arcticbull wrote: post #10
h1fra wrote: post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

It's not misunderstood.

People also have costs some of which are tax deductible, yet their income is seen to be completely taxed before costs are deducted. In both personal and corporate taxes, some costs are deductible and others not. People understand this.

The point is that people find it a violation of norms how a company can arrange its taxes in a way that a salaried individual basically never can: to basically not pay any taxes while enriching some specific people more than others.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#44

Post by purplethinking »

erikerikson wrote: post #14
h1fra wrote: post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporations get to pay their costs before paying taxes on what's left. Only the population pays taxes before their costs.

An interesting thought experiment what would happen if we treated people as corporations. I guess we'd have to raise income taxes quite a bit to make ends meet, as most people spend everything they make.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#45

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dxuh wrote: post #33
arcticbull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

I have income and I have costs. Why is my income not completely offset by my costs? I'd love to spend more money to pay fewer taxes. My labor is turned into profits for my employer and similarly their profit is eventually taxed. In that sense my labor doesn't have to be taxed directly either. Why is it? I think it's absurd that one the hand they are reporting revenue to shareholders and on the other hand they are rep…

> it's absurd that one the hand they are reporting revenue to shareholders and on the other hand they are reporting no profits to tax authorities. Am I misunderstanding something here?

Yes and no. It's clearly an abuse of the tax code. But the idea that a company would have different books for the IRS and itself is no different than you probably having a different set of "books" for your household budget and tax filings. They're held to different standards of precision and serve different purposes.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#46

Post by jpc0 »

croes wrote: post #26
arcticbull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

So in politics companies are people but in taxes they are not? Or why do I have to pay taxes instead of nothing because I invest in my company aka me?

To be fair you are welcome to incorporate and follow all the rules regarding what is actually business expenses vs private and most of your expenses can also be tax free.

But I doubt your employer will be too happily to now pay your salary as an invoice to a subcontractor...

You may find it's easier to just pay tax... Also look up effective tax rate vs actual tax rate...

I know many people who despite having a significant portion of their salary being taxes, when you look at their Revenue and Expenses for a given 12 month period they in fact paid no tax.

Your specific situation may be different, but you aren't a corporation.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#47

Post by mihaic »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25
erikerikson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations get to pay their costs before paying taxes on what's left. Only the population pays taxes before their costs.

> Only the population pays taxes before their costs Not that simple. Plenty of individuals pay a negative income tax. Plenty of individuals deduct various expenses. And if you're a sole proprietor, you get to deduct expenses like a corporation. Labour v capital != corporations v people.

You've said something true that misses the point. Taxation disproportionately comes from wages, and most in the middle class can't avoid them, even though they are a pillar of the economy.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#48

Post by JumpCrisscross »

purplethinking wrote: post #44
erikerikson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations get to pay their costs before paying taxes on what's left. Only the population pays taxes before their costs.

An interesting thought experiment what would happen if we treated people as corporations. I guess we'd have to raise income taxes quite a bit to make ends meet, as most people spend everything they make.

> what would happen if we treated people as corporations

You'd rename line items and move on. Companies can't deduct any expense. The chief ones are things they've already paid tax on, e.g. wages subject to payroll and purchases subject to sales taxes.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#49

Post by Terr_ »

pavlov wrote: post #11
easytiger wrote: post #9

[flagged]

These titles don't exactly sound communist to me... It's a long way from "Flat Tax Maybe Not Good" to "Proletariat, Seize the Means of Production Now!" By your logic, Eisenhower's America was communist because income tax was much more progressive than today.

> It's a long way from "Flat Tax Maybe Not Good" to "Proletariat, Seize the Means of Production Now!"

And if, just for the sake of argument, we suppose those were equivalent... Then the huge popular support for (1) means those who decry (2) are actually a weirdly out-of-touch political minority with delusions of being far bigger than they are.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mihaic wrote: post #47
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only the population pays taxes before their costs Not that simple. Plenty of individuals pay a negative income tax. Plenty of individuals deduct various expenses. And if you're a sole proprietor, you get to deduct expenses like a corporation. Labour v capital != corporations v people.

You've said something true that misses the point. Taxation disproportionately comes from wages, and most in the middle class can't avoid them, even though they are a pillar of the economy.

> Taxation disproportionately comes from wages, and most in the middle class can't avoid them

Totally correct. Ironically, a classic labour vs. capital argument holds water better than people vs. corporations. We absolutely tax returns on labour too much in America and capital not enough. That doesn't really result in concluding that we should let people deduct more expenses or corporations pay on their top line. You're still working at the level of abstractions.

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