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Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

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Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#11

[flagged]

These titles don't exactly sound communist to me...

It's a long way from "Flat Tax Maybe Not Good" to "Proletariat, Seize the Means of Production Now!"

By your logic, Eisenhower's America was communist because income tax was much more progressive than today.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#12
post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

Oh yea share buybacks are very nice costs for a lot of companies.

Then you can also take loans based off of that to make sure you never have to pay taxes again.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

Oh yea share buybacks are very nice costs for a lot of companies. Then you can also take loans based off of that to make sure you never have to pay taxes again.

Those are taxable events for the people who sell the shares Tesla is buying back.

> Then you can also take loans based off of that to make sure you never have to pay taxes again.

You can borrow against the after tax amount yes, you'll pay interest on it and when you die, you will pay the capital gains. On your final tax return, you are required to pay taxes on all of the capital gains you up to your departure. This resets the tax basis for your heirs.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#14
post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporations get to pay their costs before paying taxes on what's left.

Only the population pays taxes before their costs.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#16
post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

> either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate.

Feels like a fatal flaw in the law if you can bypass paying the corporate taxes in that way.

That is individual tax - not the tax payed by the corporation. Normally the tax is payed twice. Tax from the corporation profits and then the individual employee/shareholder tax based on their income.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#17
post #11

[flagged]

These titles don't exactly sound communist to me... It's a long way from "Flat Tax Maybe Not Good" to "Proletariat, Seize the Means of Production Now!" By your logic, Eisenhower's America was communist because income tax was much more progressive than today.

> These titles don't exactly sound communist to me...

Then we have a very different understanding. And yes the post war heist that destroyed long term economic common sense all over the western world turned into a permanent ongoing shakedown

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#18
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

> either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Feels like a fatal flaw in the law if you can bypass paying the corporate taxes in that way. That is individual tax - not the tax payed by the corporation. Normally the tax is payed twice. Tax from the corporation profits and then the individual employee/shareholder tax based on their income.

At least today the corporate tax rate is 21%. Individual tax rates in California are as high as like 52%. In almost every scenario you'll see a higher rate on the distributions and buybacks than you would carrying it forward to the following year.

I guess you could make a case for double-taxation but... why?

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#19
post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

Yes, but that’s not the whole picture. If the value of the company goes up, shareholders capture value as capital gains which has a very low tax rate.

Re: Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2B of U.S. Income in 2024

#20
post #6

So I pay more taxes than one of the highest-valued companies in the world? sure the system works well

Corporate tax is quite misunderstood in my opinion. Tesla makes revenue, and they have costs. Their revenues are offset by their costs. Any profit Tesla makes is eventually taxed -- either when Tesla shareholders sell appreciated stock, when the company makes distributions or when they liquidate. Corporate tax only applies to un-distributed profits carried forward from year to year instead of invested into the busine…

My sense about Tesla: They have nearly all of their R&D in the United States, but they have large global footprint with very large factories in Germany and China. I think a lot of the US-based R&D costs can by used to offset US-based income. Also, does "income" mean "profits" in this context? It is unclear to me. They did not clearly define the term.
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