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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#211

Post by justinspace »

hattmall wrote: post #130
namirez wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you deal with all sorts of emergencies involving human pilots? For unmanned aircraft(aka drones) it’s a lot easier to implement unmanned traffic management (UTM).

Direct them to land in the best location and make sure all other aircraft are on non-intersecting flight paths. What exactly is ATC doing that software isn't able to? How many options are there for handling emergencies with aircraft now? You pretty much just have either land ASAP or circle to burn fuel and then land.

"You pretty much just..."

Ah, there it is. "How hard could coordinating takeoff and landing for thousands of flights be? You just..."

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#212

Post by justinspace »

rayiner wrote: post #73
ghc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In addition, the White House has put a hiring freeze in place, prohibiting the replacement of open government positions or the creation of new ones while the administration evaluates reductions in the workforce. The White House plans to release a memorandum with further guidance within 90 days. This has drawn criticism from lawmakers as the FAA has been ramping up controller hiring. https://www.ainonline.com/aviati…

https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2025/01/broad-exemptions-t... > President Trump signed an executive order instituting the freeze on Monday shortly after his inauguration, but allowed for exceptions for positions related to immigration enforcement, national security or public safety. Important to read the details! There will be lots of misinformation as people invoke the minority of critical jobs as cover to defend…

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#213

Post by femto »

ty6853 wrote: post #181
stall84 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t know. this line is really upsetting people tonight.

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The Westminster tradition is for the public service to give "frank and fearless advice" [1] in the interests of the nation. It's still democratic, as a minister can choose to ignore this advice, at their own peril, and issue orders. As hinted at by their name, a public servant's first loyalty should to the public/nation rather than their Minister/Master. Maybe the US has a different system?

Of course the above is theoretical. In practise governments demand loyalty to themselves and there is little peril to Ministers as there now seems to be little repercussion for denying responsibility.

[1] https://vpsc.vic.gov.au/about-vpsc/updates-from-the-commissi...

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#214

Post by jjtheblunt »

jfengel wrote: post #89
stall84 wrote: post #62

In any event, unless the weather was IMC, where neither aircraft can see because of weather/cloud, which I'm deducing is not the case if they were allowed to maintain visual separation, the ultimate responsibility for maintaining separation is with the pilot(s) .. But as I posted, we should not have this happen anywhere in the United States in 2025 & much less the nation's capital. Hopefully DOT and FAA get to work,…

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> everyone is expecting to be fired regardless of their experience and skill.

How do you know this?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#215

Post by justinspace »

fortran77 wrote: post #183
duxup wrote: post #82

I sometimes wonder about the value of these news stories on forums and social media. It's all pretty much wild speculation with several potential causes already mentioned on this forum. News important yes, every rando with a few shreds of factoids speculating, not so much.

Don't you know? If a person can program in Rust and Kotlin, that makes him an expert in every other field, too.

I've seen at least one "why don't you just " upthread already. Can't believe this flavor of tech hubris is running the country now. No wonder the goddamn planes are falling out of the sky...

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#216

Post by TacticalCoder »

highcountess wrote: post #160
reaperman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[2] shows the helicopter taking off 2 miles away from the old saudi embassy in McLean marked “permanently closed” on google maps. (The current embassy is in DC proper, directly across the river from DCA airport) I don’t think thats strong evidence that it took off from the old Saudi Embassy - thats pretty far away even given your caveat about accuracy. Edit: it looks to me like the black hawk was coming from somewher…

That was clearly a training flight

[dead]

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#217

Post by nradov »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #148
NaOH wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring controllers is not easy. A friend's daughter just went through the hiring process. She graduated from college with an appropriate degree right as COVID hit. Her FAA application wasn't accepted for four years. This past summer she did the four-week interactive online courses. Applicants must pass this and may not re-enter the program if they do not. After that she did the six-week courses in Oklahoma City. Agai…

> appropriate degree what's considered an appropriate degree for ATC?

No college degree is officially required. Candidates with aviation related degrees probably have a better chance of making it through. But there are plenty of working controllers who have only a high school diploma or learned the job as enlisted military personnel.

"Have either one year of general work experience or four years of education leading to a bachelor’s degree, or a combination of both"

https://www.faa.gov/be-atc

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#218

Post by justinspace »

gonzo41 wrote: post #103

I know that everyone crosses all altitudes during landing. But why don't ATC / FAA stratify aircraft type and use by altitude. Like all commercial traffic is put in even thousands altitudes. And the Military / EMS gets the odd thousands. Its crazy to have things colliding like this.

You'd think they would've figured this out by now. Hacker News to the rescue!

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#219

Post by justinspace »

anigbrowl wrote: post #185
jonnybgood wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the strange way the helicopter appeared to fly right into the jet there will be no end to the speculation. There's an ATC recording. No speculation necessary. The Army helicopter pilot is likely at fault.

If you think a recording of ATC saying 'keep an eye out for that plane coming in to land' is going to end speculation then you have no understanding of how people behave on social media. For some reason people are upset about me pointing out the reality that this will generate lots of conspiracy theories. I invite you to consider this example of a prominent public figure engaging in exactly the sort of speculation I…

Are you speaking from experience?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#220

Post by mvdtnz »

NaOH wrote: post #135
nradov wrote: post #7

Obviously it will take some time for the full accident analysis but there have been quite a few near misses lately due to air traffic controller errors. Flight volume has been growing, airspace near airports is more congested, and controllers are overworked. Eventually all of the "Swiss cheese" holes line up. We're going to need to hire more controllers. Also, it appears that one of the aircraft was a military (not p…

Hiring controllers is not easy. A friend's daughter just went through the hiring process. She graduated from college with an appropriate degree right as COVID hit. Her FAA application wasn't accepted for four years. This past summer she did the four-week interactive online courses. Applicants must pass this and may not re-enter the program if they do not. After that she did the six-week courses in Oklahoma City. Agai…

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