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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

ft.com

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Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#321

Post by ttesmer »

osigurdson wrote: post #211
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about as illegal as the billions, if not trillions of IPs that ClosedAI infringed to train their own data without consent. Not that they're alone, and I personally don't mind that AI companies do it, but it's still amusing when they get this annoyed at others doing the same thing to them.

I think they had the advantage of being ahead of the law in this regard. To my knowledge, reading copywritten material isn't (or wasn't illegal) and remains a legal grey area. Distilling weights from prompts and responses is even more of a legal grey area. The legal system cannot respond quickly to such technological advancements so things necessarily remain a wild west until technology reaches the asymptotic portion…

> if intelligence is ultimately a function of power input, what is the shape of the curve?

According to a quick google search, the human body consumes ~145W of power over 24h (eating 3000kcals/day). The brain needs ~20% of that so 29W/day. Much less than our current designs of software & (especially) hardware for AI.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#322

Post by adzm »

semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

Why does this post use DeepSink instead of DeepSeek at apparently random places? Is that just a pejorative pun like ClosedAI?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#323

Post by skeeter2020 »

semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

I share the sentiment here, but asking as a noob: does this mean the performance comparison is not really apples to apples? If it required the distillation of the expensive model in order to get such good results for a much lower price, is that shady accounting?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#325

Post by pphysch »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #128
jasoneckert wrote: post #20

What I find the most comical about this is that the whole situation could be loosely summarized as "OpenAI is losing its job to AI."

OpenAI should be excited that it has been freed of the tedious tasks of building AI and now they can focus on higher level and more creative things.

OpenAI should be, but OpenAI died a while ago

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#326

Post by fundad »

827a wrote: post #28

This smells very suspiciously like: someone who doesn't know anything about AI (possibly Sacks) demanding answers on R1 from someone who doesn't have any good ones (possibly Altman). "Uh, (sweating), umm, (shaking), they stole it from us! Yeah, look at this suspicious activity, that's why they had it so easy, we did all the hard work first!"

I think it's funny that OpenAI wants us to pay them to use their product to generate content but then sets the terms that they control how we use the content in generates for us. It takes someone like Deepseek to challenge that on our behalf or they will control most of the economy.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#329

Post by rooroobooragool »

jasoneckert wrote: post #20

What I find the most comical about this is that the whole situation could be loosely summarized as "OpenAI is losing its job to AI."

This is really the top take in this thread. Why should OpenAI be any different than all the others they they've ripped off.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#330

Post by sailfast »

nozzlegear wrote: post #212
Buttons840 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a some Europeans hoping that the US would ban DeepSeek, because then there would be less traffic interfering with their own DeepSeek queries. The US can ban all they want, but if the rest of the world starts preferring Chinese social media, Chinese AI, and Chinese websites in general, the US is going to lose one of its crown jewels. The way the US behaves is a problem and makes a lot of people prefer alternativ…

Agreed, you've highlighted one of the key problems with protectionism and nativism. Banning competition just weakens America's global influence, it doesn't make it stronger.

You know this. I know this. But the President of the United States does not know this.
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