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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

ft.com

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Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#291

Post by ryanisnan »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #255
stackghost wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don’t care for Sam Altman and his general untrustworthy behavior. But DeepSeek is perhaps more untrustworthy. Models from American companies at least aren’t surprising us with government driven misinformation, and even though safety can also be censorship, the companies that make these models at least openly talk about their safety programs. DeepSeek is implementing a censorship and propaganda program without admit…

> Models from American companies at least aren’t surprising us with government driven misinformation, and even though safety can also be censorship

Being a citizen of a western nation, I'm inclined to agree with the general sentiment here, but how can you definitively say this? You, or I, don't know with any certainty what interference the US government has played with domestic LLMs, or what lies they have fabricated and cultivated, that are now part of those LLMs' collective knowledge. We can see the perceived censorship with deepseek more clearly, but that isn't evidence that we're in any safer territory.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#293

Post by meowface »

Winsaucerer wrote: post #138
mritchie712 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

openai should pay creators, but: 1. scraping the internet and making AI out of it 2. using the AI from #1 to create another AI are not the same thing.

I'm genuinely not sure which one you think is worse (if any). (1) seems worse, but your reply suggests to me maybe you think (2) is worse.

Not that poster, but I think both are equally fine.

It's funny if OpenAI were to complain about this, but at least on Twitter I don't see that much whining about it from OpenAI employees. Sam publicly praised DeepSeek.

I do see some of them spreading the "they're hiding GPUs they got through sanction evasion" theory, which is disappointing, though.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#296

Post by duped »

fullshark wrote: post #245
mjburgess wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the curious, it was vertical integration in the railroad-oil/-coal industry which is where the money was made. The problem for AI is the hardware is commodified and offers no natural monopoly, so there isn't really anything obvious to vertically integrate-towards-monopoly.

Aren’t we approaching a scenario where the software is commodified (or at least “good enough” software) and the hardware isn’t (NVIDIA GPUs have defined advantages)

Compute is literally being sold as a commodity today, software is not.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#297

Post by wanderingmoose »

There is a lot of discussion here about IP theft. Honest question, from deepseek's point of view as a company under a different set of laws than US/Western -- was there IP theft?

A company like OpenAI can put whatever licensing they want in place. But that only matters if they can enforce it. The question is, can they enforce it against deepseek? Did deepseek do something illegal under the laws of their originating country?

I've had some limited exposure to media related licensing when releasing content in China and what is allowed is very different than what is permitted in the US.

The interesting part which points to innovation moving outside of the US is US companies are beholden to strict IP laws while many places in the world don't have such restrictions and will be able to utilize more data more easily.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#298

Post by benreesman »

stackghost wrote: post #101
semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

[flagged]

The guy is a total fucking psycho and the rest of the board are no gems either.

Their failure is important at a minimum to the future of the United States if not the world.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#299

Post by rubslopes »

semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

> Our mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity.[1]

Well, I guess they really helped make this a reality!

[1] https://openai.com/about/

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#300

Post by didip »

semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

fr fr, ClosedAI is being a comedian right now.

They scraped literally all the content of the internet without permissions. And I won't even be surprised if they scraped the output of other LLMs as well.

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