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Craigslist Suing Padmapper

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Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#51

Post by gcb »

mootothemax wrote: post #33

I can't say that I'm that surprised; Padmapper wrote a whole blog post about how they were adding Craigslist support back to their site after being sent a C&D by Craigslist. It's a shame for the guy behind Padmapper, but hopefully there'll be a lesson learnt about knowing which fights are worth picking versus knowing when to move on. Somehow Google managed to overcome Yahoo and Altavista without scraping their data.…

uh, didn't he wrote that to say how he was complying with the C&D order and ceasing any automated access to craigslist servers?

padmapper is now merely the user of a 3rd party service that provides craigslist data... it's like coca cola suing me because i bought a can at 7-11 and 7-11 failed to pay the coke distributor.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#52

Post by astrodust »

jonny_eh wrote: post #48
astrodust wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only succeeds because it has a historical legacy that's proving difficult to displace. This is the same thing driving eBay. It's a difficult nut to crack. Kajiji seems to be gaining some traction, but it's trading one set of UX nightmares for another.

It's http://kijiji.com (looks to be ebayized now). Although in Canada, http://kijiji.ca is more popular than Craigslist.

Sourceforge looked impossible to displace and yet GitHub happened. I can't wait for the same thing to happen to Craigslist.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#53

Post by mootothemax »

debacle wrote: post #32

> The lawsuit raises questions about who should be able to use the vast amount of user-created data hosted on a site like Craigslist. No, it really doesn't. This isn't going to be a long, exciting case challenging the underpinnings of copyright law and server terms of services. Padmapper isn't that company.

Agreed - there have been an awful lot of armchair lawyers asserting that there's more to this case than there really is.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#54

Post by webwright »

What's it like to work as Craigslist and read this stuff? How could you be excited to come to work every day knowing that network effects have carved a deep moat around a site that people describe as "an exercise in torture"?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#55

Post by rprasad »

astrodust wrote: post #29
flatline3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you can't beat them, steal their work product. Padmapper is (indirectly) screen-scraping Craigslist's data in an attempt to unseat Craigslist.

If these were articles written by professional writers, you might have a case. Instead these are posts written by many different individuals trying to advertise their properties. Craigslist didn't write a single one of those posts. They try and assert control over this content through their terms of service: "You automatically grant and assign to CL, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant and…

Craiglist doesn't need to write those posts. Under their TOS, Craiglist has a license to the posts (which are copyrighted by their owners ). This license gives Craiglist the authority to enforce copyright against persons who interfere with Craigslists' license in the posts. Thus, the last sentence of their TOS is perfectly legal and enforceable. The license would not give Craiglist a license to do anything to other services on which the original posters also post their listings to. But that is not the case here.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#56

Post by jblock »

astrodust wrote: post #42
jblock wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Craigslist is one of the poorest user experiences around and succeeds only because people insist on using it." If a lot of people INSIST on using it, then that means it has good UX. Complaints with their UX should be qualified.

People insist on using it not because it has a good user experience, but because of content. It has a terrible user experience. Don't confuse the two things. For instance, many payroll companies have truly awful sites, yet people use them since they have no other choice. As a specific example, searching for an apartment should not mean reading every single listing in order to discern where the property is, what featu…

I'd be interested to see interaction studies in the non-tech community about Craigslist, because I haven't seen a person in non-tech find difficulty in posting on Craigslist.

Also, don't confuse my opinions about Craigslist's design/UX with an opinion on the case. I've used Padmapper extensively. While I believe that Craigslist has a right to do what they please with their content, I don't see what Padmapper was doing as wholly legally wrong.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#57

Post by freehunter »

brador wrote: post #39
citricsquid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is the party we should feel bad for in this case it's 3Taps. They seemed to be flying under the radar until Padmapper started using them.

"Flying under the radar hoping we don't get caught and sued for something we know is wrong" should not be a part of any reasonable business plan.

But many startups do not have reasonable business plans. They have crazy business plans that everyone knows will fail, except sometimes they don't. Many startups have begun knowing they were going to be sued, knowing they were going to have legal and publicity problems. That's the nature of the disruptive business that everyone wants to be in these days.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#58

Post by gcb »

chimi wrote: post #37
cwp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Padmapper doesn't steal IP.

It's pretty clear that Padmapper is making use of the craigslist posts without the rights to do so, which is defined by Merriam-Webster as "stealing". STEALING transitive verb 1a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stealing If you're going to downvote me, that's fine, but if you do, please show how copyright infrin…

nice. you just proved that they are stealing by stealing from Merriam-Webster!

or are you going to say it's fair use?

i for one advertised places in craigslist and search for places on padmapper. I loved that my listing showed up for free and without me moving a finger on padmapper, and i found it much bette to find a place using padmapper's interface.

now, posting on craigslist has lost value for me. as my post will not be on that nice interface for people to find.

So, as far as you may prove they are stealing craigslist data, they sure as hell are not 'stealing' my data that i post at craigslist.

So, i don't think it fits the last word of your stolen definition "make use of wrongfully".

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#59

Post by rprasad »

jblock wrote: post #28
astrodust wrote: post #2

When you can't beat them, sue them into the ground. Craigslist is one of the poorest user experiences around and succeeds only because people insist on using it. The alternatives somehow manage to be even more spectacularly useless by over-designing their apps and cluttering them up with junk. Padmapper is one of the few that does what they're supposed to do, and it's not even an optimal implementation of this sort o…

"Craigslist is one of the poorest user experiences around and succeeds only because people insist on using it." If a lot of people INSIST on using it, then that means it has good UX. Complaints with their UX should be qualified.

Craiglist has a great UX for a classifieds board: location > type of listing > listings by date.

It may look butt ugly, but it is as close to a functionally efficient classifieds board as you can get. Craigslist isn't trying to be anything more than that.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#60

Post by nostromo »

Commenters here make this sound like an open and shut case in favor of Craigslist. IANAL, so could someone explain why Google's index of material covered by copyright is ok and PadMapper's is not?
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