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USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

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Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#61

Post by cocoggu »

cookiemonsieur wrote: post #32
Aldo_MX wrote: post #11

This restriction makes no sense. The US says "18 countries may purchase our AI chips", but what I understand is "90% of the world may purchase Chinese AI chips". China just needs to infiltrate Taiwan, which is geographically and culturally closer than the US.

It doesn't even matter at this point. As evidenced by DeepSeek. A growing portion of the world is distancing themselves from the west, and It's a good thing. People should have the ability to choose who they do business with without a third party strongarming them.

Can you please explain to me why AI chips don't matters anymore because of DeepSeek? I thought it was just a better model, but perhaps I didn't get it?

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#62

Post by raincole »

logicchains wrote: post #60
raincole wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't matter now as deepseek has shown People keep saying that DeepSeek R1's training cost is just $5.6M. Where is the source? I'm not even asking for the proof. Just the source, even a self-claimed statement. I've read the R1's paper and it doesn't say the number of $5.6M. Is it somewhere in DeepSeek's press release? Google just gives me a lot of medium articles and journalist sites. It sounds awfully like a…

It's in the DeepSeek V3 paper, not the R1 paper. https://arxiv.org/html/2412.19437v1#abstract "assuming the rental price of the H800 GPU is $2 per GPU hour, our total training costs amount to only $5.576M." Note that's for V3, the base model; we don't know how much extra R1 cost to train.

I see. Thank for the source.

So all the claims of DeepSeek R1's cost [0] is indeed bullshit parroted around...

[0]: https://www.google.com/search?q=deepseek+r1+training+cost

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#63

Post by bluesign »

godelski wrote: post #28
sschueller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not trying to take sides in this, but your link seems to support the parent who you're disagreeing with. You have to get to the 14th most popular origin to see the first non-European immigrant. Which this, like usual, follows a power law distribution. So yeah, looks like most immigrants are coming from Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Kosovo. Last I checked, they are all white European countries.

Yeah but considering EU and free movement agreements, little bit apples and oranges comparison.

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#64

Post by [deleted] »

nisten wrote: post #58
ricardobeat wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is historically neutral going back 500 years. You can’t be neutral while picking sides, and the munitions block was precisely to protect that neutrality. It’s not difficult to understand.

They picked the side of Russian oligarchy cash it seems.

[deleted]

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#65

Post by lmm »

godelski wrote: post #28
sschueller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not trying to take sides in this, but your link seems to support the parent who you're disagreeing with. You have to get to the 14th most popular origin to see the first non-European immigrant. Which this, like usual, follows a power law distribution. So yeah, looks like most immigrants are coming from Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Kosovo. Last I checked, they are all white European countries.

> Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Kosovo. Last I checked, they are all white European countries.

Kosovo has never been white (it's majority-Muslim, culturally Middle Eastern) and whether Italy/Portugal/Spain are considered white fluctuates based on politics.

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#66

Post by Beretta_Vexee »

dtquad wrote: post #8
kleton wrote: post #2

Do the Swiss want to be considered someone's ally or neutral?

Being from Denmark I have always been puzzled by how US/UK media portray us as neo-Hitlers for being slightly more critical of MENA immigration than our neighbors. Meanwhile Switzerland has been doing what almost amounts to white-only immigration to the point that their "troublesome" immigrants are Europeans from Albanaia and Serbia. Neutrality is good for PR.

> to the point that their "troublesome" immigrants are Europeans from France and Italy

Depending on the canton, it is virtually impossible to become a Swiss citizen, even if you are married to a Swiss national and have been resident for ten years.

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#67

Post by genewitch »

raincole wrote: post #41
sschueller wrote: post #12

It doesn't matter now as deepseek has shown. Also this was done under Binden so we have no idea what Trump will do. However it does spoil the relationship and maybe the next time around when Switzerland is ready to spend 6B Swiss Francs on planes it won't be US made ones. Additionally if Trump doesn't follow the agreed upon global minimum tax which Switzerland also bent over backwards for why would it do any such agr…

> It doesn't matter now as deepseek has shown People keep saying that DeepSeek R1's training cost is just $5.6M. Where is the source? I'm not even asking for the proof. Just the source, even a self-claimed statement. I've read the R1's paper and it doesn't say the number of $5.6M. Is it somewhere in DeepSeek's press release? Google just gives me a lot of medium articles and journalist sites. It sounds awfully like a…

any source?

CNBC: https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1737931632.132_cnbctechceosso...

I don't wanna do all the work, folks.

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#68

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

tgv wrote: post #39
sofixa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China just needs to infiltrate Taiwan, which is geographically and culturally closer than the US. Taiwan is China. Their official name is the Republic of China, and they're the remnants of the losers from the civil war that ran away go to an island and assimilated the locals. They still officially claim to be "the one and only real" China. For Americans, think it the Confederation ran away to Puerto Rico (assuming…

The bad blood is mutual. Mao's armies stood aside while the NRA tried to hold off the Japanese, with the sole intention of weakening the NRA. They could have prevented several blood baths.

That's a strange reversal of history.

Chiang Kai-Shek's policy was to prioritize the fight against the Communists over the fight against the Japanese. He only agreed to a united front with the Communists against Japan after he was kidnapped by some of his own generals, who forced him to talk with the Communists.[0]

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an_Incident

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#69

Post by karmasimida »

sschueller wrote: post #25
karmasimida wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Serving is still a massive effort, requires massive amount of GPU memory to hold those models. I don't understand the logic that deepseek somehow is a blow to GPU demand. If anything, more people will try to build on top of R1 style model now, it is only going to drive demand, for customized training.

We can buy old chips at any volume. The restriction is only on the latest and greatest. DeepSeek has shown that you can achieve the same or better result on old hardware with less computing power.

H800 is essentially H100, and it is not old. And GPUs do expire, it breaks down constantly. You need to swap them in and out.

Buying old chips isn't related to deepseek what so ever, you can buy A100 also.

Re: USA restricts Swiss access to AI computer chips

#70

Post by ricardobeat »

SllX wrote: post #43
dtquad wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from Denmark I have always been puzzled by how US/UK media portray us as neo-Hitlers for being slightly more critical of MENA immigration than our neighbors. Meanwhile Switzerland has been doing what almost amounts to white-only immigration to the point that their "troublesome" immigrants are Europeans from Albanaia and Serbia. Neutrality is good for PR.

Half of the US media portrays half of the country as neo-Hitlers for being slightly more critical of immigration than their neighbors. We generally have one of the most open borders, relatively straightforward legal immigration paths and more than twice as many Green Card holders than Denmark has people. We also, at least for the moment, still have unrestricted birthright citizenship, a policy pretty much no countrie…

You have the added problem of 1% of them actually being neo-nazis.
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