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To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

economist.com

71–80 of 106 posts

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#71
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, there is no "team humanity", except in one losing game Team Humanity is frequently identified as the political left. It shouldn’t be too hard to coordinate internationally.

Every team thinks they are team humanity.

[deleted]

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#72
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, there is no "team humanity", except in one losing game Team Humanity is frequently identified as the political left. It shouldn’t be too hard to coordinate internationally.

Every team thinks they are team humanity.

For some values of humanity

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#74
That's a shtty take, centralization is almost always the most inefficient way to do things, and leads to multiple problems by implementation, specially around different cultures

What country A wants to do is totally different that country B wants.

Some western countries are freezing as they are investing hard in solar/wind plants, while China makes ton of carbon plants.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#75
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, there is no "team humanity", except in one losing game Team Humanity is frequently identified as the political left. It shouldn’t be too hard to coordinate internationally.

Every team thinks they are team humanity.

Doubt it, some just pretend

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#76
post #69

I cannot help but wonder what the answers are to these points: > Norwegians are forgetting that domestically produced power is not always cheaper. Whenever the current in the cables flows towards them, it helps reduce high prices. Norway could add some diodes to the cables so that it only imports and does not export. > And even though Norway exports more power than it imports, that is fantastic for domestic energy pr…

> Norway could add some diodes to the cables so that it only imports and does not export. Does norway really transfer power via DC? that can't be true can it?

The map on Wikipedia shows several HVDC links exiting Norway:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current

HVDC for long distance power sharing makes sense since it is generally more efficient than HVAC. On land, HVDC is more efficient beyond ~500km, but underwater, HVDC is more efficient beyond ~50km:

https://www.electricaldeck.com/2021/08/comparison-between-hv...

Beyond the efficiency benefit, HVDC easily handles transfer of power between grids operating at different frequencies. There are also several other benefits documented at that second link.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#78
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This not a necessary outcome of connected grids though. Technology has advanced a lot in the past two decades.

Has it? https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/01/could-hackers-use-n...

A hack was not the cause of the 2003 blackout.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#79
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it? https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/01/could-hackers-use-n...

A hack was not the cause of the 2003 blackout.

It did not need to be. My pint was that upgrades being done by everyone did not eliminate all points of fragility.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#80
post #63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is never going to be viable. Even existing short undersea cables are difficult (impossible?) to protect from sabotage, let alone one that would span an ocean.

Longer cables need to be thicker if you want resistance to be fixed. If you want 1Ω then by coincidence a 40,000 km cable has a cross section of almost exactly one square meter. If you're putting a significant fraction of global power through that at any sane voltage, you can't use most cutting tools (or indeed electrical motors) near it because the magnetic field is too strong. China is making enough aluminium that…

Ok, you have the resistance for the cable. Now we need the expansion and contraction due to temperature, and also current, and gravity acting on downward upward sections. Then there is the minor issue of lowering 40km sections to the ocean floor, be a nice boat to work that! Exactly how much arc we gona put in the cable? as we drop it strait down the edge of the continental shelf. And then there are undersea quakes and mega slides, which brings up, exactly what happens when a live wire, that size breaks! When not if, and the gear to fix it, fast. What else, oh ya! kinda cool, but the existing grid already acts like a motor winding that interacts with the earths magnetic field and charged particles coming from the sun. Might want to work that into all of the calcs.

Money! There is a huge risk in even starting a full engineering study, due to the very real possibilty of another technology bieng adopted and implimented first.

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