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Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

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Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#61

Post by kibwen »

justinzollars wrote: post #47

> With the agency expecting approximately $6 million annually in energy credits from the California Air Resources Board’s Low Carbon Fuel Standard Program the first year of electric service will have lower fuel costs than the previous diesel service Thats the key. Without the subsidy its more expensive and less efficient than carbon based fuel. In the long run we are worse off, because the subsidy can't last forever.

> Without the subsidy its more expensive and less efficient than carbon based fuel.

If markets actually worked for long-term decisionmaking and were therefore capable of pricing in negative externalities, then factoring in the cost of causing Earth to asymptotically approach Venus would change this calculus.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#62

Post by brookst »

lmm wrote: post #43
readdit wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this is positive news moving in a positive direction. Do you suggest not doing anything to improve the situation? We can’t go back in time. But we can help ourselves in the future.

One way to help yourselves in the future would be to learn the meta-lesson that actually things that work in other countries mostly work the same way in the US too.

Oh, we all know. It’s just convenient to pretend otherwise sometimes.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#63

Post by SoftTalker »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #15
insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BART police why does a transit system need its own police force? Aren't municipal and county police enough?

That's a good question, any I have no idea of the answer, but the port authority of NY and NJ has it's own police. I always figured it was because it spanned jurisdictions, but perhaps there are other reasons

Chicago has CTA police and the suburban rail system Metra has its own police also.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#64

Post by ninetyninenine »

lswainemoore wrote: post #36
ninetyninenine wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. Doubtful. In your lifetime you won't see any transit system in the bay area that approaches anything remotely close to what you see in places like Tokyo or NYC. I get that there's improvement but like it's still rather pathetic compared to almost everywhere else across the pond.

Why so negative? Given that the served population is conservatively a quarter of either of those areas, doesn't seem like a fair comparison. More to the point, I've been favorably impressed with the transit options since moving here, and in terms of reliability it's been better than NYC, though obviously there are fewer trains/branches. I'd love to see BART open later, like NYC, but even Tokyo trains stop at midnight…

It's fair. NYC is 8.8 million, bay area is 7 million. Tokyo is about double that.

Not being negative. Being realistic. It's unfortunate that being realistic often is negative. Transit here is garbage. You either luck out and live and work near transit or you're like most people and have to drive.

A couple million in energy savings doesn't mean anything compared to the amount wasted by cars.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#65

Post by ninetyninenine »

astrange wrote: post #50
ninetyninenine wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. Doubtful. In your lifetime you won't see any transit system in the bay area that approaches anything remotely close to what you see in places like Tokyo or NYC. I get that there's improvement but like it's still rather pathetic compared to almost everywhere else across the pond.

If you copy Japan policies you can get something much closer to Japan, it's not magic. (Transit oriented upzoning, no parking minimums, and businesses in the station building.)

If it's not magic why isn't it being done? That's the point. This news is rather pathetic strictly because a better scenario is NOT magic.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#66

Post by SoftTalker »

offmycloud wrote: post #42
lotsofpulp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because police usually only have jurisdiction within their employer’s city limits, and sheriffs’ employees only have jurisdiction within their counties, so if mass transit moves between multiple jurisdictions, then their police can have jurisdiction wherever the mass transit goes (even across state lines, because a lot of metropolitan regions served by the same mass transit system span two or more states).

With prior consent, the authority of California peace officers extends to any place in the state. [1] You would think that the counties could get together and work out an MoU. 1. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

Most city police and sheriffs officers have jurisdiction anywhere in their state, AFAIK. They typically stay in their area, but if they’re pursuing a suspect they don’t break off if they cross the city limits.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#67

Post by SoftTalker »

lesuorac wrote: post #37
lotsofpulp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because police usually only have jurisdiction within their employer’s city limits, and sheriffs’ employees only have jurisdiction within their counties, so if mass transit moves between multiple jurisdictions, then their police can have jurisdiction wherever the mass transit goes (even across state lines, because a lot of metropolitan regions served by the same mass transit system span two or more states).

Wouldn't they just have jurisdiction in the transit area though? Like it's not like a BART employee could pull you over for speeding?

If they are a sworn law enforcement officer they probably could, but probably wouldn’t.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#68

Post by declan_roberts »

19 million annually. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze here. They should focus on making Caltrain run reliably timely, and safely for the passengers.

Once we get the ridership numbers up we can easily make up for the electricity efficiency.

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#69

Post by pm90 »

jmward01 wrote: post #41
pm90 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To unlock the true value of these systems the BA needs to be forced to increase density of their cities though. We need SF proper to look more like Manhattan.

It also needs a much bigger emphasis on transit oriented development. In Japan the best place to eat in town is often in the train station or within a few feet of it. In the US the stops are often some of the worst places like parking lots or run down parts of town. Rarely have I seen good shopping/dining/living integrated into BA, or even US in general, transit systems.

Agreed. Caltrain stops are… definitely not that. The SF stations are somewhat out of the way (although the planned extension would bring it all the way to the transit center). I do see a lot more residential units coming up near transit nodes, although its not nearly enough! The San Jose Caltrain is a prime exhibition of what you said: surrounded by parking lots and it feels quite deserted and creepy instead of being a bustling, thriving commercial area (although a few blocks near there is a nice commercial area with a brewery and many eateries, including a whole foods).

Re: Caltrain's electric fleet more efficient than expected

#70

Post by pm90 »

markerz wrote: post #46
potato3732842 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s way quieter, the cars have nicer interiors, and it is running faster and more frequently than before. Not that electric isn't a huge step up for all the usual reasons but most of that is just because it's new and hasn't been worn out yet.

Electric does help with getting cars to run quieter and faster though. With the old diesel engines, they needed more headway because of slower cold start times so there's more frequency and can hit the speed limit faster. Electric engines have high torque and are naturally much quieter.

Yup not to mention that the fumes from diesel engines got into the cars so you tended to avoid the ones close to the engine. Its a HUGE qol improvement!
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