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The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#81

Post by AYBABTME »

[quote] So there you have it: A former Air Force lieutenant colonel, speaking on the record and using the present tense, said in 2011 that "private contractors are whacking people like crazy over in Afghanistan for the CIA." [/quote]

A journalist looking for any reference that would support his article. I'm not saying the US Gov. isn't contracting private security firms to carry some of their dirty work. But saying "Huh a former lt-col from the Air Force confirmed " isn't worth anything. In fact, all it does, in my opinion, is uncover and expose how naive is the reporter.

A former Air Force lieutenant-colonel... is it supposed to mean anything? It's a claim to Authority, with a weak authority to bring forward.

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#82

Post by droithomme »

taligent wrote: post #78
droithomme wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep claiming they attack their neighbors. Which ones? They have two: China and Russia. They also share a border with the other half of Korea. This is similar to the Mason Dixon line. Both halfs are part of Korea. Do you also object to the War Between the States as unnecessary aggression of the North against the South?

North and South Korea are two separate countries and represent themselves individually within international institutions e.g. UN or WTO. Also by every measure they are separate. US states have an overarching political, financial and political system that in some parts supercedes the rights of the states. So I don't think the two are really comparable.

Can we agree that, contrary to your original claim that "repeatedly attacked its neighbours with no good cause", North Korea does not "repeatedly attack" Russia or China, with or without "good cause", these being their only two non-Korean "neighbors"? That leaves this to be only about possibly a single "neighbor", not multiple neighbors regarding claims of "repeatedly attacking a neighbor with no good cause".

So let's look at that one "neighbor". It's reasonable to consider whether that is truly a "neighbor", or is a split of an original united single nation that was split over ideological differences, exacerbated by foreign influences.

The american south declared independence from the american north. The north asserted the right to restore its country through military force and waged a massive destructive war to reunite the nation. This was facilitated by foreign governments supplying arms to both sides.

This is extremely comparable to the current N/S Korean schism, right down to the difference in philosophies regarding human rights by the two sides.

To object to efforts to reunify a split nation by force in one situation, one must object to efforts to reunify a split nation by force in the other situation, in order to remain ideologically consistent. This is why I asked "Do you also object to the War Between the States as unnecessary aggression of the North against the South?"

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#83

Post by accountswu »

briandear wrote: post #38

It's almost ridiculous how some people get so indignant about CIA; I can almost feel their spittle as they shout at their computer screens. At the same time, people get equally outraged when terrorists kill people and then want to blame CIA for their failings. It's a bad world. I am not sympathetic to the plight of those who associate with terrorists (even if they themselves haven't committed a terrorist act) and fin…

Are you a real human being or a brain-dead bot...? So it is good when CIA goes and kills anyone thousands of miles away (whether you call them civilians or you consider them guilty by default), you're just not sympathetic with those people who are victims of CIA...? Aren't you associating yourself to terrorism (i.e. killing innocent civilians) even if you are not committing the acts yourself?

Was a good thing that CIA installed brutal dictators after toppling the governments of dozens of elected leaders around the world from Chile and Brazil, Cuba and Guatemala and Iran to Indonesia?

https://www.google.com/search?q=cia+interventions+since+1945

Is it terrorism when a guy named James kills a dozen Americans and injures 5 dozen? Would he be called a "suspect" or a terrorist if his name happened to be Muhammad?

Is it a good thing when an American soldier kills a dozen Iraqi civilians?

https://www.google.com/webhp?&q=american%20soldier%20ira...

https://www.google.com/search?q=american+soldier+killing+spr...

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#84

Post by Volpe »

taligent wrote: post #79
Volpe wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I answered you directly (where you brought it up). Israel repeatedly attacked/s its neighbours (even occupying them). North Korea is timid in comparison. Good cause is debatable (for both Israel, and North Korea).

Care to provide an example why North Korea has good cause to invade South Korea ? You know they keep trying right ?

Much like the Israel/Palestine conflict. They believe the country is theirs. Hence why they want unification.

As I say, good cause is debatable.

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#85

Post by accountswu »

anupj wrote: post #3

Maybe I've missed something here but how is this question relevent to hacker news?

If a dozen Americans killed by a whacko deserves to be on hacker news, the mass murder of Afghans and Iraqis also deserves to be mentioned. There have been no minutes of silence for the million+ Iraqis and Afghans, no American media outlet has run hours long stories about the victims, the survivors or their families.

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#86

Post by accountswu »

refurb wrote: post #77
fatbird wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://cryptome.org/cia-iran-all.htm The CIA, in its own words, seems to feel that it was responsible for the "overthrow" of Mosaddegh, in a "coup" (their words). At the time of the coup, Mosaddegh was more popular than before, enjoying majority support, and had just been granted emergency powers by parliament for six months, which then renewed them for twelve. I respectfully dispute your suggestion that, absent CIA…

A couple points: 1. The plot to overthrow Mosaddegh went off exactly as planned. Ignoring any moral factors, it was very a impressive operation. I wouldn't doubt that CIA took as much responsibility for it as they could. 2. It is true that Mosaddegh had broad popular support, but he was also opposed by a large fraction of the population (eg. the mass protests that called for his head). I'll take back the comment that…

Mosaddegh wanted to nationalize oil, are you telling us that BP (then APOC), the UK, the US were all happy about it and the Iranian public was furious to see the oil money coming back to their country?

What about the coups and assassinations in several dozen other countries? Chile 9/11/1973, Brazil 1964, Guatemala 1954, Venezuela 1992+2002, Haiti 1991+2004 (Aristide was forced to board a US military plane that took him into exile), Congo coup 1960 and Patrice Lumumba's assassination 1961?

https://www.google.com/search?q=patrice+lumumba+assassinatio...

https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+cia+interventions+si...

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#87

Post by accountswu »

3amOpsGuy wrote: post #41
briandear wrote: post #38

It's almost ridiculous how some people get so indignant about CIA; I can almost feel their spittle as they shout at their computer screens. At the same time, people get equally outraged when terrorists kill people and then want to blame CIA for their failings. It's a bad world. I am not sympathetic to the plight of those who associate with terrorists (even if they themselves haven't committed a terrorist act) and fin…

>> I am not sympathetic to the plight of those who associate with terrorists (even if they themselves haven't committed a terrorist act) and find themselves it Gitmo or dead. There is a view that the US actions are unfair and unjust. The delivery method is not terrorism but the end result is indistinguishable in terms of justness or fairness. For example, torturing a man not found guilty of any crimes. With that in m…

>There is a view that the US actions are unfair and unjust. >The delivery method is not terrorism but the end result is indistinguishable in terms of justness or fairness. For example, torturing a man not found guilty of any crimes.

How is the delivery method not terrorism? If a guy named Muhammad kills 12 ordinary civilians he is a terrorist but if a guy named Andy/Joe/Steve kills 12 / 112 people in Iraq / Afghanistan by going on a shooting spree / dropping a bomb on a civilian home / aspirin factory / wedding and its not terrorism? There was a Muslimy-named guy who killed American soldiers (not civilians) at Fort Hood and he was labelled a terrorist. The guy named James who has killed 12 civilians is not a terrorist, he is a "suspect".

1998 Clinton knowingly bombed the aspirin factory that provided cheap medicines to millions of Africans:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2...

Edit:

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/7/28/national_exclusive_hez...

In 1985, when I was the Deputy Director of the Reagan White House Task Force on Terrorism, they asked us—this is a Cabinet Task Force on Terrorism; I was the Deputy Director of the working group—they asked us to come up with a definition of terrorism that could be used throughout the government. We produced about six, and each and every case, they were rejected, because careful reading would indicate that our own country had been involved in some of those activities.

After the task force concluded its work, Congress got into it, and you can google into U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2331, and read the U.S. definition of terrorism. And one of them in here says—one of the terms, "international terrorism," means "activities that," I quote, "appear to be intended to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping."

Yes, well, certainly, you can think of a number of countries that have been involved in such activities. Ours is one of them. Israel is another. And so, the terrorist, of course, is in the eye of the beholder.

Re: The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

#88

Post by joering2 »

Jesus Christ, think about it! a Blackwater employee killed your six year old son, but he turned out to be a wrong person. You have all the evidence in the world for justice to be served, and yet you get this: "oh, sorry, but this company and their employees have unofficially issued government license to kill. Neither your local sherrif office, nor police, nor your congressmen, people in congress, DOJ or Supreme Court alone can do shit about it".

And this happens on the soil of the United States of America!

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