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I Met Paul Graham Once

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Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#801
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if your essays win you a Nobel price (Paul Grahams certainly didn't) the writer isn't protected from becoming a bullshit-dispenser. This is why I respect authors that publish a consistent level of quality more than those who hit and miss as if they were throwing darts at a map. And the stuff I have read from Paul Graham is definitly not in the former category. I don't feel he is intellectually honest, either wit…

Would love to hear a few of the consistently-high-quality writers you're thinking about. I have a pet theory that volume is required for quality, but would love to be wrong so that I can feel less bad about how much I publish!

You are not wrong that volume is required for quality. But it does not necessarily mean all of that volume has to be published. E.g. in music there are bands where every single recording on every single release they did is good and not just a slight variation of another thing that worked.

Mow on the other side you have musicians who have two releases a year and every other of them has a track on it that is really cool.

I am not saying the latter is wrong, I just say the former has more of my respect, because you know that even the rejected stuff of the first band is probably stellar.

Keeping a thought to oneself that isn't fully fleshed out is a virtue.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#802
post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, ok. [1] I guess there must be another reason Trump's campaign spent hundreds of millions of dollars broadcasting that ad. It was way more than they spent on any other ad. You're moving the goalpost here and pretending that neopronouns is not that big an issue. But it's obviously just part of the gender ideology issue, which was clearly part of the reason Trump won. I can see that there are still people out there…

You said ‘swing state voters’. The survey you indirectly link to is talking about ‘swing voters’: >Our definition of swing voters includes those who are undecided in the presidential race, have changed their voting preference since 2020 (voting Democrat in one election and Republican in the other), or are independents who either indicate they split their votes between Democrats and Republicans, or who hold either fav…

Ok, well you're doing a great job of splitting hairs but have not brought any evidence. Good luck in 4 years, to us all!

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Gates, who contributed around 30% of the total money spent on the world eradication effort so far

So he didn't create the vaccine, and he didn't provide most of the money spent on eradication, but he did sit down for a nice long dinner with an administration that is now pulling funding from the WHO and other international health organizations. In the meanwhile, the technocrat administration we just got is putting the anti-vaccine activist RFK Jr up as Secretary of Health and Human Services. The progress we have m…

Which do you think is more likely, that Bill Gates sat down with the administration to try to convince Trump to keep funding Gate's life work, or that Gates talked to Trump to end polio funding?

Trump bad, has nothing to do with Gates or Zuck. If you blame them for trying to prevent Trump from doing bad things, you should look into what they will benefit from and how they spend their money

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#804

My current way of thinking about it is that we should tolerate communities that we find weird. People who cross dress are to me as weird as the religious people or the overly enthusiastic magic the gathering players. Should I hate them or discriminate against them? No. Should I let them force their community rituals on me? No as well. I don't like someone telling me "God bless you" as much as someone forcing me to pr…

> someone forcing me to pretend they're a different gender What is it specifically which you don't want to do? Use their preferred pronoun? In this scenario, who is forcing you and how?

Yeah. The answer is always: which one is the agreed default, and which one is community based

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the species is divided in two. * reproductive egg carriers, * reproductive sperm carriers * and then there's all the others . . . You do understand, I hope, that not all humans are born as {A} or {B}.

Why did you change the words that I used? I said "strategy" for a reason. True intersex conditions (where the strategy is ambiguous) are vanishingly rare. With humans, there is only male, female, and for lack of a better term, very rare birth defects. We say that arachnids are "8 legged species" even if due to birth defect a spider is occasionally born with 7 legs. We say a coin flip is a binary "heads" or "tails" ev…

> True intersex conditions (where the strategy is ambiguous) are vanishingly rare.

More common than gold, more common than most things I professionally deal with in geophysical exploration.

In most countries they form a real number of real actual people. There are also a much larger number of not true intersex people who are also not exactly male or female.

> With humans, there is only male, female, an

You've already conceded this isn't true.

> This whole "what about people born with a leg missing" is total sophistry.

No, it isn't, It's something that actually happens and something that public policy that gives a damn about human dignity has to deal with.

Why is it you don't care about some humans? Do they lack a soul, or something, in your eyes?

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "gender identity"? What is the evidence that "gender identity" exists, outside of my identity as a sexed being (ie the influence of hormones on my brain and psychological development, the knowledge of my own body)? If such a phenomena as "gender identity" exists outside of biological sex, why redefine words like "she" and "woman", which have always referred to biological sex, instead of coming up with new wor…

I'm a bit confused as to why you are pretending that the word "gender" and the concept of gender either doesn't exist or is part of some very recent flimsy social construct. The concept of gender being used to categorize things as male/female/masculine/feminine is not new, and the concept of gender roles being used for general (not rigid) categorization of male and female traits is not new, either.

> I'm a bit confused as to why you are pretending that the word "gender" and the concept of gender either doesn't exist or is part of some very recent flimsy social construct. The concept of gender being used to categorize things as male/female/masculine/feminine is not new, and the concept of gender roles being used for general (not rigid) categorization of male and female traits is not new, either.

I said 'gender identity' not 'gender'.

Up until the early 1900s, the word "gender" did not apply to people. It applied to words. The word "libro" has a masculine gender, but obviously the object itself has no gender or sex. Rarely, "gender" was a synonym for sex, but this was generally considered to be informal or a mistake. As Henry Watson Fowler, a teacher of English usage, wrote in 1926:

> "Gender...is a grammatical term only. To talk of persons...of the masculine or feminine gender, meaning of the male or female sex, is either a jocularity (permissible or not according to context) or a blunder."

Then in middle-1900s academics began defining gender in various new ways. Money used it as a word to describe the way a person presents their sex. Other academics invented the term "gender role" to describe the things a culture associates with men and women. These academics did not believe that "gender" was some innate characteristic of a person's mind. In fact, many of them were arguing there was no difference between men and women in the head, and "gender" roles were social constructions. Even here, though, the concept of gender applied to things, not to people (eg the gender of pink clothes is feminine).

At the same, time the word "sex" began to more commonly be used to refer to coitus, and so normal, non-academics started using gender more commonly as a synonym for biological sex to avoid using the word "sex."

Then in the last thirty years, the term "gender identity" has arisen to describe one's own internal sense of being a boy/man or woman/girl in one's own mind (see the genderbread person), and furthermore the claim is that this is immutable and if there is a conflict between your "gender identity" and biology or how society sees you, it is your biology and/or society that should change. It is only in the last thirty years that people are considered to have something called "gender" that is different than biological sex.

Interestingly this new sense of "gender" almost seems to be a mutant child of the two, completely separate previous definitions of the word gender (gender as biological sex, a property of a person, man or woman and gender as ones presentation and expression more masculine or feminine).

I do not believe that "gender identity" is a meaningful concept. It is an anti-concept, it mashes together unlike things and makes it harder to think and reason about the underlying phenomena. I do not believe that someone has a fixed gender identity that can be distinguished from their biological sex. I do not believe believe that "gender" (as opposed to biological sex) is a property of a person.

"I am a woman, but I don't always like to act or dress as a stereotypical woman, my self-expression is fluid" is a banal and unobjectionable statement.

"I don't like to act or dress as a stereotypical woman, therefore I am not a woman, my gender identity is genderqueer/non-binary" does not make any sense. It is making a mishmash of concepts.

If you believe the modern idea of "gender identity" is real and valuable then you need to properly define it, explain why it is useful, and what is your evidence that it really exists.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#807
post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha trying to get around pattern matching by lopping off the word “both” doesn’t really strengthen your argument. The problem is that you’re pretending like the sides don’t exist now, yet they do. In reality, the individuals that compose one side are different from the individuals that compose the other side in predictable and problematic ways. Yes, individuals matter, but so too does the trend those individuals emb…

> In reality, the individuals that compose one side are different from the individuals that compose the other side in predictable and problematic ways. Predictable is where we disagree strongly. I think there's more diversity than unanimity at the individual level in both parties. In the sense of what people say they believe around a dinner table, not what they passively nod their heads to at a rally or while watchin…

Okay, just so I understand, you're claiming there aren't ideological consistencies across members of a political group?

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't cause extreme mental anguish, I just... don't have to play along with childish games like pretending someone can be the opposite sex. I just don't! However easy or respectful you think it would be for me to play make believe, or even just pay two-faced lip service. That seems to really wind people up but since the executive order today (I'm not American incidentally), everyone is going to have to get used…

> It doesn't cause extreme mental anguish, I just... don't have to play along with childish games like pretending someone can be the opposite sex. See, this is where you guys get it twisted. This is not a matter of playing along, it's not a game. It's a matter of social practicality. Example: If you meet a new person who clearly appears to be a woman, do you use female pronouns with that person? What if that person i…

I do not advocate routine genital check for office workers. The crucial questions for me are the following:

1) should institutions that have female only spaces or events be allowed to exclude pre-op transwomen? Post-op? For example, the women's only nude spa in Seattle that got in trouble for excluding a transwoman -- https://www.courthousenews.com/after-banning-trans-women-was...

2) If a coworker of mine who I know to be a biological male (he has sired children, etc.) socially transitions (no surgery), should I be forced to call him "she" and say that he is a woman? What if he makes almost zero effort to pass as a woman? What if he medically transitions?

3) Should I be able to make an argument on social media (Reddit etc.) such as "Men cannot get pregant" or "trans women are not real women" without getting banned for hateful conduct?

All three of these things are really happening, and are the real issues getting me freaked out (also, that and transitioning kids who very obviously are not "girls in a boys body")

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#809
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that elite universities produce elite university graduates is probably not controversial… Isn’t it?

No, it's a statement of fact, akin to "universities produce graduates".

The only thing elite universities provide is, possibly, “elite” connections. The education is the same, you get out of it what you put into it.

The state schools of the US aren’t worse than Stanford or Harvard, you pay extra to hang out with people who can also afford to pay extra.

The college education system in the US is second only to the healthcare system in terms of “how fucked this system truly is” metric.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need a mind reading machine to understand what gender dysphoria is, because gender dysphoric people tell us what they are thinking and feeling It's not this simple. For one, lots of people are all kinds of confused. There are people who think they are dysphoric, transition, then realize they totally messed up. There are people who say, "I went through a period when I was a kid where I was a tom-boy or told m…

> There are people who think they are dysphoric, transition, then realize they totally messed up. Some people start businesses, it doesn't go well, they then realized they messed up and totally regret it. Does this mean that all entrepreneurship should be banned? The logical failure in your argument is that you are saying that because there are problems with current approaches to transgender care, that gender dysphor…

There is zero evidence that your "common sense approach" works at all, and there is zero evidence that reparative or conversion therapy works at all for those with legitimate gender dysphoria.

Clinical psychologists Kenneth Zucker's work in getting the majority of his patients over their dysphoria is "evidence" that reparative therapy works -- https://www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-r...

Every random comment on Reddit that "I suffered from dysphoria and then started lifting and doing masculine things and got completely over it" is evidence that reparative therapy works.

It's not gold standard evidence, it's not proof-beyond-a-reasonable doubt, but it is evidence. But the "evidence" for "affirmation" and "medical transition" do not meet this gold standard either.

With medicine, the burden of proof is on the person doing the intervention. "First do no harm." Social transition and medical transition are both MAJOR interventions, the burden of proof is on the proponents. "You have to give people this drug, no we have never done a controlled clinical trial on it, but you have no evidence that NOT giving them the treatment works." What? You need to do a RCT before promoting a new treatment as the standard of care. "Affirmation" has never proved itself in an RCT so "Sorry, you are a man" should be the default.

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