I Met Paul Graham Once • Hacker News Board

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#41

Post by slibhb » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

I thought this was better than most essays in this vein.

I do fundamentally disagree with the author. People can think poorly of you for whatever reason they want. If someone hates trans people, they can, and you can't stop them. The whole "war on hate" thing was a bad idea; you can't forbid hatred. It predictably didn't work, and it's good that we're turning away from it.

Adding on, the trans issue isn't simple. There are real questions about bathrooms, women's sports, and when medical interventions are called for. Of course, there are also just bigots. The proper response to bigots is not to banish them, ban them, shadowban them, etc. That didn't work. The proper response is -- in the spirit of the new era of free speech -- to firmly state your opposition to their beliefs.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#42

Post by whack » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

I appreciate the author and this article. As an immigrant and person of color, the author's concerns resonate with me. I don't think people like PG or Andreessen are evil bigots. But they are underestimating and enabling a movement that is cruel and exclusionary by design. A movement that they seek to tame and harness, but not understanding that the movement is fundamentally untameable.

I miss the days when the Republican party was led by a President like Bush, who told America that Islam is a religion of peace. And nominees like McCain, who told his supporters that Obama is a decent family man, and a natural-born American. I worry for the future, and my children's place in it.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#43

Post by BearOso » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

andrewflnr wrote: post #10

You should have finished reading PG's essay. It's really quite narrowly scoped. There's no indication I could see that he doesn't still hold the same basically liberal politics (he included explicit disclaimers, for all the good that did); he might still be fine with transgender identity. He just wanted to talk about how the particular loudmouth brand of annoying leftist came to prominence. He even had a decent defin…

This is exactly the thing the essay seems to be complaining about. It's not the ethics of equality being targeted, it's the moral hypocrisy.

People put on a false front with offensive messaging claiming support of these groups, but the whole purpose is to build clout or benefit themselves. They don't care about the message at all.

Messages like "I support lgbtq, and if you don't you're a bigot," are self-aggrandizement. "I support lgbtq," is all that's needed if you want people to know they are supported. No one needs to hear it at all if the discussion isn't relevant. Just try to treat everybody with respect.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#44

Post by skywhopper » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:17 PM UTC

transcriptase wrote: post #32

>A few days ago, Paul Graham published an essay on “Wokeness”. I skimmed it. I couldn’t finish reading it, it made me too upset. … >I’m still not sure what pg thinks “Wokeness” means Hmm

The point he’s making is that Paul did not explain what he thinks “wokeness” means in a coherent way. Which is true.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#45

Post by gedpeck » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:17 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #24

Great, cohesive, and clear essay! Hear hear. One thing that I think is underappreciated in our current times, that gets lost on both the left and the right sides -- an individual is more important than their identity . - A specific trans person can also be an asshole. - A specific white man can also be a saint. Extremists on both political sides will scream about the reasons one or the other of those statements is wr…

Be curious. Be courteous and respectful. Be a normal, nice goddamn human to human across the table from you.

In general I wholeheartedly agree. But if the person in front of you has done or advocated for things that cause harm or is themself a horrible person then I disagree.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#46

Post by hnthrow90348765 » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:18 PM UTC

This made me unreasonably annoyed, not from the author though.

>The mentors applied a neat and very effective trick: they believed in you.

It's crazy to me that the LeetCode interview style is still such an aberration compared to other jobs that yield potentially much more money

Do you want to be a Software Engineer at this company? We don't trust you, the previous company could have let you in under the radar and you could secretly be a terrible engineer.

Do you want to run a SaaS and make us and yourself a bunch of money? Welcome aboard, we trust you completely once you're in. Just change your company name to fucking Oracle, ha ha ha.

This industry is such an imbalance of misplaced scrutiny, and certainly more so when they get into political stuff like wokeness.

If you're pg rich, just shut the fuck up.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#47

Post by netsharc » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:18 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #26

andrewflnr wrote: post #10

You should have finished reading PG's essay. It's really quite narrowly scoped. There's no indication I could see that he doesn't still hold the same basically liberal politics (he included explicit disclaimers, for all the good that did); he might still be fine with transgender identity. He just wanted to talk about how the particular loudmouth brand of annoying leftist came to prominence. He even had a decent defin…

> It would be great if people could discuss these issues rationally, but the vast majority can't. Everyone is on a hair trigger. If only we in the tech industry could blame social media on anyone but ourselves :(

My startup idea is a iPhone/Android virtual keyboard that detects the user is writing something toxic, and refuses to cooperate. Using AI. Who wants to fund me?

My other idea is a video/audio communication app that mutes the user if they become toxic.

Yes, I'm only joking. I wonder how many will be triggered and foam about "But who determines what is toxic!?!". That makes me think about the joke about feminists where the setup is "I have a joke about feminists..." and punchline is someone from the audience yelling "That's not funny!" straight away.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#48

Post by InsideOutSanta » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:18 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #15

frereubu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a pretty shallow reading of the article and you've fallen into the trap - described in the article itself - that "woke" is "some left-wing thing that I don't like". Whatever your views on trans issues, I think this article deserves a more thoughtful answer.

Will you agree with the author's viewpoint that "none of experience" matters if one is trans?

My reading of the author's viewpoint is that there are a lot of people in leadership positions in the tech world who would have previously recognized the author's talent and supported them, but would now form a negative opinion of them, regardless of their experience. These people would no longer give them the opportunity they gave them previously.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#49

Post by skywhopper » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:20 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #15

frereubu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a pretty shallow reading of the article and you've fallen into the trap - described in the article itself - that "woke" is "some left-wing thing that I don't like". Whatever your views on trans issues, I think this article deserves a more thoughtful answer.

Will you agree with the author's viewpoint that "none of experience" matters if one is trans?

He’s saying, for people who take Zuckerberg, Trump, and Paul Graham’s statements as permission to discriminate against trans folks, their experience doesn’t matter. The author is not giving up, they’re saying that essays like Paul’s make the world worse for them, for no good reason.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#50

Post by 1970-01-01 » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 5:20 PM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #34

1970-01-01 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you agree with the author's viewpoint that "none of experience" matters if one is trans?

That’s what facing structural oppression feels like. You can have the right skills and competency and mindset and disposition but will be looked over because you don’t fit the norm.

I agree with this somewhat, however, facing structural oppression is very different from deciding if a journey simply isn't worth starting. The mindset and disposition you speak of is or is not inclusive of assuming oppression will fully control one's overall success and happiness at a company?