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Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

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Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#431

Post by r00fus »

numpad0 wrote: post #246
criticalfault wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can see the same thing happening today. BYD+CATL are the new iphone and other manufacturers are Symbian, Motorola and Sony Ericsson VW, Toyota and friends cannot change fast enough. They should have started with big battery investments 10-15y ago and RnDing then, not now when Market is flooded.

IMO it's shocking that this _did not_ happen in cars, in past tense. Model S launched 12 years ago. Apple replaced Nokia in 4 years. Model Y was the second best selling car worldwide, supposedly, after a Toyota and followed by a Toyota. Tesla has market share of about 2.3% globally and stays out of top 10. iPhone became de facto definition of a phone. In less than 5 years from nothing. Tesla is... not that.

1) Cars are vastly more expensive and regulated. 2) Consequently the sales cycle is slower (usually people last at least 2-3 years for a lease). 3) EVs became politicized very quickly as they impacted politically active industries (oil).

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#432

Post by happyopossum »

numpad0 wrote: post #405
bodpoq wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cellular is to smartphones that charging is to EV's. Apple launched in a market with comprehensive cellular coverage. The charging stations grid is still being built out, so Tesla was in a completely different situation circa 2013.

Bullshit. iPod touch, which was a low end model that followed iPhone, wiped out mp3 players, undone viability of portable game consoles, and roadkilled Windows CE, all without cellular just fine. Same just didn't happen with Tesla.

The iPod touch didn’t outsold the iPhone, and wouldn’t have done well if it weren’t for its big brother paving the way.

iPhone got all the press, all the attention, all the developers, and made all the money.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#433

Post by happyopossum »

alkonaut wrote: post #425
_fat_santa wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It had the revolutionary touch screen, yes, I still remember seeing the demo of maps and the user being able to pan and zoom and was just floored. I really think the screen is what sold it then, even if it didn't have the apps, you could still browse the full internet on it which was a complete game changer. IMO the screen + multi touch is what drove sales of the first iPhone.

> you could still browse the full internet on it which was a complete game changer. It had the screen and the software do do that but not the bandwidth. But I guess people were more patient back then.

It had WiFi, which was rare in mobile phones back then (carriers wouldn’t generally allow it)

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#434

Post by hilux »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #93

I was there as this played out. Nokia had a lot of good software and software engineers but not the management structure to do anything good with that. Nokia was huge as an organization and parts of that organization recognized the threat early on. The problem was at the board and executive level. These people had a blind spot for software. They thought they were still in the electronics business. Lots of people with…

Something clicked for me when I read your comment: the most amazing thing about Apple is that despite their corporate immensity, they still continue to ship generation after generation of cool products that compete and sell on their own merits. You don't have to be a fanboy to appreciate that.

Almost no other tech company that I can think of has been able to resist bureaucratic ossification. (Perhaps Adobe - to an extent?)

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#435

Post by hilux »

jorvi wrote: post #157
jillesvangurp wrote: post #93

I was there as this played out. Nokia had a lot of good software and software engineers but not the management structure to do anything good with that. Nokia was huge as an organization and parts of that organization recognized the threat early on. The problem was at the board and executive level. These people had a blind spot for software. They thought they were still in the electronics business. Lots of people with…

> The iphone was solidly in charge by then Nit: the iPhone was only "in charge" for a brief year or two, and then Android ate its lunch in terms of marketshare. What is very interesting is that Apple has displayed twice over ( MacBooks and iPhones) that a minority marketshare can capture the vast majority of profits in that market. OEMs like HTC and LG made a few bucks profit off of any phone, sometimes even losing m…

This is such an important lesson!

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#436

Post by grishka »

unwiredben wrote: post #241

I was at Palm when the iPhone launched, and one note from this analysis summed up Apple's new power in the market and how they really changed the landscape. "Cingular has allowed Apple to launch a device with WLAN and inbuilt services" At that time, the carriers controlled so much of the cell phone experience. We certainly would have loved to have launched Palm Treo phones with WiFi radios, but our carrier partners w…

> At that time, the carriers controlled so much of the cell phone experience.

In English-speaking countries, maybe. But I remember at least Windows Mobile PDAs that had both a cellular radio and wifi before the iPhone launched. At least Russian carriers never cared at all what kind of phone or other device you were using on their network. You bought it unlocked for the full price from somewhere else anyway. There were various attempts to do US-style carrier-locked phones with 2-year commitment with no or little upfront payment, but none of that really stuck. The only exception to that was SkyLink, Russia's only CDMA carrier. They sold their own branded phones but even those, iirc, were for the full price upfront.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#437

Post by freetonik »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #93

I was there as this played out. Nokia had a lot of good software and software engineers but not the management structure to do anything good with that. Nokia was huge as an organization and parts of that organization recognized the threat early on. The problem was at the board and executive level. These people had a blind spot for software. They thought they were still in the electronics business. Lots of people with…

>The problem was at the board and executive level. These people had a blind spot for software. They thought they were still in the electronics business.

A very common story in European tech and automobile companies.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#438

Post by sampo »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #293
masom wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia also had a ex-Microsoft exec ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Elop ) that had the goal of ensuring Windows Phone would succeed, and tanked Nokia with it. I was on the DVLUP project where Nokia and Microsoft attempted to inject energy into windows phone app development. We could see the tension between the two companies as we were a 3rd party contracted by Nokia to build the platform. The Nokia exec we we…

People blame Stephen Elop. But the person in control of the Nokia board was former CEO Jorma Ollila who headed Nokia through its glory days and had a lot of power. Nothing happened in Nokia without his approval during that period. The board recruited and invited Stephen Elop. Part of his appointment was the board handing over the company on a silver platter to the new CEO. Negotiations for the acquisition started alm…

> Jorma Ollila retired as a CEO around 2006; he wasn't really pushed out and Nokia was still performing well. He handed the keys to the company to a non technical CEO with a financial background

I wouldn't say that Ollila had a technical background either. Ollila has 3 MSc degrees, 2 in economics and 1 in engineering. But after graduating for the 2nd time, he worked first in an investment bank (Citibank), then in the finance department in Nokia before rising to the executive level. I would say he has a financial background.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#439

Post by bigstrat2003 »

jorvi wrote: post #177
bombcar wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this around the time Microsoft kept switching what "windows phone" was? I remember that the one friend who got into it loved it, and then they released something completely incompatible and he abandoned the platform.

If memory serves, it was a custom kernel and OS, then a semi-custom kernel with a few OS components shared with Windows 8, and then the Windows 10 'core' kernel (same as on the Xbox One?) with many shared OS components. At each step they left the majority of devices behind. What was equally worse was the triple (quadruple?) switch of app frameworks. If I remember correctly it was a dotnet abomination, then ?? then WP…

I wouldn't exactly call flat UI a good thing. They are one of the horrible flaws of our current UI design trends.
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