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Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#181

Post by potato3732842 »

nyrikki wrote: post #152
caminante wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Time of day (night driving especially) and speeding are major parameters for hazard avoidance. Minor nit: I expect someone driving in a suburb to pay more in premiums because...deer can't sue you.

90% of drivers consider themselves above average, and where I grew up we had pronghorns, which could pass you and cut in front of you even at 55. While reducing speed when you see deer is important, you won't see the one you hit. In my case it jumped over a road barrier from below, it would have been impossible to see. But human perception is limited, the best drivers I know (not including myself in this) respect the…

>90% of drivers consider themselves above average,

They're probably right because the average includes a lot of people who chronically create carnage like drunks, teenagers and that old woman everyone has in their extended family who swears she's a good because she managed to not be found responsible for the dozen accidents she's been in.

Now, if 90% of people said they were better than median that would be concerning.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#182

Post by potato3732842 »

rconti wrote: post #44
wbl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it when unsafe drivers pay the costs of the way they endanger all of us.

I like it when people naïvely believe the insurance companies' model of safety has anything to do with actual safety.

Safe for the company coffers, not for the public or the customer.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#183

Post by potato3732842 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #102
Scoundreller wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If insurance pricing is perfect, they’ll charge you $100k+ if you’re going to have a $100k claim.

Underrated comment. perfect prediction turns insurance into a payment plan.

A really crappy payment plan that has a ton of overhead you pay extra to make up for.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#184

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #23
barbazoo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do pay higher premiums but that might not be enough to pay for a claim. The economics are often such that you price low risk drivers to subsidize higher risk drivers if realistically pricing the high risk drivers is not economical, i.e. would lead to losing business. It's a balance.

As another commenter pointed out, if insurance companies had a crystal ball and could perfectly predict each customer's probably of having an accident, and charged them an individualized rate based on future payouts, then we would not need insurance. You could just put those premiums in a savings account and pay for the accident(s) when they happen. The whole point of insurance is it's a shared risk pool. Arguments l…

[deleted]

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#185

Post by potato3732842 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #14

This is your friendly reminder that the insurance industry does not generally make money on underwriting. In other words they are losing money on insuring you. Typically the costs of the insurance side of the business are greater than their revenue from premiums. This typically means that insurance actually is a good deal on net. They make their money on investing the float. They can only do that if they attract prem…

The insurer losing money insuring your does not mean it's a good deal on net.

I pay $100, they pay out $90 on my behalf in that time period, total cost to them is $110 because overhead. That it cost them $110 and I only paid $100 doesn't mean I'm not losing $10.

Of course they actually make $111 because they invested my money but that's beside the point.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#186

Post by StackRanker3000 »

ses1984 wrote: post #148
StackRanker3000 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in this hypothetical the insurance company has perfect information, so they won’t sell you that policy that has to be paid out for more than you’ve contributed. It’s just a thought experiment, but the more information they have on us, the more relevant it becomes.

They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident. Perfect information means they know your risk level to the best possible accuracy, which would really only apply to populations. Perfect information means they insure 1000 people and predict they’ll have one bad accident per year. After ten years they covered for ten accidents. All ten could have occurred in the first year and t…

> They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident.

That’s why it’s a thought experiment, and not real life.

> Perfect information means…

No, that’s not what was meant by perfect information in this instance.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#187

Post by throw5959 »

ssl-3 wrote: post #169
throw5959 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phone usage data. You use a phone very differently when you're driving and when you're a passenger.

Great. Now they're not just analyzing my driving habits, but they are also analyzing my porn habits.

Indeed they do. As I said, devil's advocate...

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#188

Post by ses1984 »

StackRanker3000 wrote: post #186
ses1984 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident. Perfect information means they know your risk level to the best possible accuracy, which would really only apply to populations. Perfect information means they insure 1000 people and predict they’ll have one bad accident per year. After ten years they covered for ten accidents. All ten could have occurred in the first year and t…

> They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident. That’s why it’s a thought experiment, and not real life. > Perfect information means… No, that’s not what was meant by perfect information in this instance.

Then it’s a boring thought experiment. It hardly deserves the name “experiment”.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#189

Post by [deleted] »

StackRanker3000 wrote: post #186
ses1984 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident. Perfect information means they know your risk level to the best possible accuracy, which would really only apply to populations. Perfect information means they insure 1000 people and predict they’ll have one bad accident per year. After ten years they covered for ten accidents. All ten could have occurred in the first year and t…

> They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident. That’s why it’s a thought experiment, and not real life. > Perfect information means… No, that’s not what was meant by perfect information in this instance.

[deleted]

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#190

Post by StackRanker3000 »

ses1984 wrote: post #188
StackRanker3000 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can’t predict the future, they can’t predict exactly when you’ll get in an accident. That’s why it’s a thought experiment, and not real life. > Perfect information means… No, that’s not what was meant by perfect information in this instance.

Then it’s a boring thought experiment. It hardly deserves the name “experiment”.

Sure. I can’t speak for Scoundreller, but I don’t think it was meant to be particularly interesting, just pointing out to wbl that if insurance was to become perfectly fair, it will also have become pointless.
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