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Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#71

Post by Scoundreller »

nickburns wrote: post #50
Scoundreller wrote: post #18

At least GasBuddy still works well if you only share while using app and you can generally do without precise location. In terms of its benefits, at least in Canada, it saves me a bunch of dough on gas. Highly recommended. Though I like the French approach where gas prices are all on a government website without needing to depend on crowd-sourcing: https://www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/ I’m more worried about a navigat…

How much money do you estimate you've actually saved using GasBuddy?

At least in my area, it’s helped me realize which city I’m usually in typically has the best prices and realized that prices tend to go up during the day and drop late in the evening.

There’s about a 13% difference between the cheapest and most expensive at the moment.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#72

Post by caminante »

nemomarx wrote: post #57
nyrikki wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the inference they have isn't reliable enough to predict anything except with broad groups. Swerving to avoid road debris or hard braking to avoid a deer as examples of what have cost commercial drivers jobs. Look at the CDL world for a view into this. I have 30 years of clean driving records BTW, so not trying to justify risky driving BTW

I guess you could argue that driving near deer at all is still more risk of accidents and damage to the car than a driver who never goes out of their suburb?

Absolutely. Time of day (night driving especially) and speeding are major parameters for hazard avoidance.

Minor nit: I expect someone driving in a suburb to pay more in premiums because...deer can't sue you.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#73

Post by jgalt212 »

sosborn wrote: post #51
jgalt212 wrote: post #35

There are too many proactively dangerous drivers on the road. And if these invasive methods make it harder for them to continue to drive this way, I am OK with it.

Surveillance doesn't make it harder to commit crimes. It might help catching people after the fact a little bit easier, but people committing crimes aren't really considering future consequences.

> but people committing crimes aren't really considering future consequences

I guess that's why Walgreen's has all their items locked down. Because the shoplifters shoplift irrespective of consequences.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#74

Post by [deleted] »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #37
nyrikki wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the inference they have isn't reliable enough to predict anything except with broad groups. Swerving to avoid road debris or hard braking to avoid a deer as examples of what have cost commercial drivers jobs. Look at the CDL world for a view into this. I have 30 years of clean driving records BTW, so not trying to justify risky driving BTW

This is how all the tech bro mass management of people systems work. Do away with any customer service, throw away randos impacted by any situations outside the norm because your system is large enough to keep the needed critical mass even without those people. Scale over nuanced edge cases to minimize cost/friction/complexity. The future world will become more and more brittle/brutal for us randos because we are 100…

[deleted]

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#75

Post by weaksauce »

throw5959 wrote: post #55
myself248 wrote: post #32

> "whether a consumer picked up or opened their phone while traveling at certain speeds," Presumably without asking whether they were a passenger at the time. Meaning that people who carpool are penalized by this practice...

To play devil's advocate, I honestly don't think it's hard to determine that from the data.

what data? if i let a passenger use my phone to check something while i’m driving this will negatively impact me.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#76

Post by jgalt212 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #45
jgalt212 wrote: post #35

There are too many proactively dangerous drivers on the road. And if these invasive methods make it harder for them to continue to drive this way, I am OK with it.

I'd prefer basic traffic enforcement to normalizing mass, sneaky, pervasive surveillance.

me too, but in the recent political climate any type of enforcement has been out of fashion. I guess things will change soon, and probably too quickly and too far (as they always do).

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#77

Post by lief79 »

nemomarx wrote: post #57
nyrikki wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the inference they have isn't reliable enough to predict anything except with broad groups. Swerving to avoid road debris or hard braking to avoid a deer as examples of what have cost commercial drivers jobs. Look at the CDL world for a view into this. I have 30 years of clean driving records BTW, so not trying to justify risky driving BTW

I guess you could argue that driving near deer at all is still more risk of accidents and damage to the car than a driver who never goes out of their suburb?

Deer are common in many suburbs.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#78

Post by kotaKat »

nickburns wrote: post #50
Scoundreller wrote: post #18

At least GasBuddy still works well if you only share while using app and you can generally do without precise location. In terms of its benefits, at least in Canada, it saves me a bunch of dough on gas. Highly recommended. Though I like the French approach where gas prices are all on a government website without needing to depend on crowd-sourcing: https://www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/ I’m more worried about a navigat…

How much money do you estimate you've actually saved using GasBuddy?

My gap is widening and is a three-digit dollar savings at this point, even with the paid subscription for their savings gas card. I’m a rural commuter in a hybrid running ~500 miles a week in the field and it definitely stretches the gas dollars.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#79

Post by Scoundreller »

orangecat wrote: post #25
Scoundreller wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once insurance companies can charge perfect premiums, there will be no point in buying insurance at all.

No, because the utility of money isn't linear. It often makes sense to pay a bit more than $1000 to mitigate a 1% chance of losing $100k.

If insurance pricing is perfect, they’ll charge you $100k+ if you’re going to have a $100k claim.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#80

Post by ndileas »

fn-mote wrote: post #40
miohtama wrote: post #4

It makes sense to share your data with an insurance provider if you are a well-behaved driver. It is well-behaved drivers that subside the insurance cost of reckless drivers.

> It makes sense to share your data with an insurance provider if you are a well-behaved driver. I would like to see evidence of this. My experience: discount for sharing is low, maybe $100/year. My expectation: if I actually get in an accident (1) the data I shared will be used against me; (2) my insurance provider will put me in a high risk pool or drop me. It seems to me that the downside is really high and the up…

I mean, $100 a year is 15% of my bill - I might have to look into the data sharing stuff. I guess if you're already burning money on comprehensive and large deductibles that might not matter as much to you.

Rest of your analysis seems spot on. Important to note however that getting in accidents already increases your premiums - I don't really think the data sharing is gonna change that much.

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