Live data from Hacker News

Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

tomshardware.com

411–420 of 499 posts

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#411

Do we know why the US government did not promise to buy chips but to give tax breaks (or investment thereof)? Wouldn't promise to buy create a better incentive to the manufacturers?

There's just such a big shift between parties right now that when the current admin is done, you're not gonna know what to expect with the next. Especially with something that's more policy (purchase orders) than law (taxes). Better to just codify the benefits.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#412
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their new stuff is. The iPad mini just moved from the A15 to the A17, The first MacBook with Intel processors had access to a bin that was not generally available yet. The yield was too low for it to work for an IBM, a Sony, or a Fujitsu. But Apple was low volume and high margin. If I was nervous about a new fab, there’s the iPhone SE, the Apple TV, lots of choices for a less aggressive manufacturing node and less ag…

I wonder if Apple Intelligence is forcing them to create new chips for things like the SE and TV instead of using old chips which I think they’d usually do.

I'm a long time AAPL shareholder, admittedly I have not been paying super close attention over the last couple of years. But I'm pretty sure Apple has a history of being perfectly fine with their entry level devices being one killer feature behind the rest of their fleet. If the old hardware can support it fine, and if not then better luck next time (literally and figuratively).

They don't usually do it for very long, and my recollection is that they usually bring it down market before (maybe concurrent with) introducing yet another new killer feature.

So you'll be correct soon enough, but there's slack time there that they can use to hedge their bets on the new fab before leaning on it for the WWDC keynote.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#413
I keep hearing about a skills gap in the US for fabs, what skills or jobs are actually suffering from this? people with masters in nanotech, compeng, EE?

Perhaps there is a skill gap because nobody actually knows there is a demand? I have no idea what to recommend to people who are trying to choose a college degree.

With my industry in infosec, at least there are certifications one can take, even proper masters degrees these days. In my experience, there is no skills gap in cybersec, despite what CEO's and linkedin-types' sentiment. They just don't want to pay market price for skilled talent. "skills gap" has meant "we need more talent so we can pay less", there is no actual shortage of people who can do the jobs adequately.

Is it different for chip fabrication? and if so, how can regular people work/study to obtain these skills? If I, having read HN for years and reading about the fab process have no clue, how can regular people who don't visit HN?

If you all can help me answer this, I'll try to recruit a few people into pursuing the right career to help meet this demand.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#414

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

I think your explanation about large numbers of motivated students pursuing lucrative Non-STEM degrees is incomplete without mentioning the cost of an undergraduate and graduate STEM education in the USA.

The most critical shortages of STEM graduates are in roles requiring advanced degrees. Your median undergraduate education (~$40k) and median graduate education (~$60k) saddles students with approximately $100k in unforgivable student debt! Never mind the years lost that one could otherwise be working. So it’s no wonder students are motivated by the ROI of their degrees, it’s why I chose Computer Engineering over Electrical Engineering.

These are expensive STEM degrees which students on visas are all too willing to pay for a chance at a residency and a pathway to citizenship. So no wonder the majority of undergraduate and graduate STEM students are foreign born in the US. The ROI is not worth it for the debt. We don’t have enough need based scholarships available to finance the STEM graduates this country claims it needs.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

> Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrative at the expensive of the native-born Americans who actually built most of this country's prosperity is, at best, ahistorical.

Most of those native-born Americans were the children or grandchildren of immigrants.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foxconn is a Taiwanese company. China's revolution is about delivering for workers. I don't get where ppl are coming up with "slave labor" when it is American allies possibly operating in China's SEZ that are doing the bad stuff. It's also simultaneously sanctimonious sounding when development is very difficult and America sacrificed three generations to industrial capitalism, stole half a continent of land, and used…

Slavery was wrong even in the 1700s and and 1800s. I wish it hadn't happened, but until we have a time machine there's not a lot we can do about it. Just because the US has committed major sins in the past doesn't mean we should be slap-happy about other countries repeating those sins. It might be "sanctimonious", but I don't think "I'm against slave labor everywhere" is an especially brave take.

I am not sold that this is a real thing in China in the first place. The main citation I can find is for the U.S. fake story about Xianjiang that is debunked on cursory inspection.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what evil ppl? what attack?

Putin is attacking Ukraine right now. There have been various coups and attempted coups around the world. Nigeria and South Korea both come to mind.

This is not our concern? The US is safe.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

> That is no longer the case. For all I shit relentlessly on this country and its culture, it's still an extremely attractive place to live if you're well-situated to make money. (Most people are not—hence my contempt for how the society functions. This presumably DOES apply to an "Einstein", if indeed this Einstein wants money.) China still has a way to go in catering to and granting citizenship (or some amenable eq…

You make a good point about China. It’s still an ethnostate, and I don’t see how it can reconcile such a strong ethnic nationalist identity with its own demographic crisis and competition for labor from abroad.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#419
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is kind of disingenuous and dishonest to say that there is no value or meaning on those Americans born in American soil, a nation should prioritize the people that live on it or well at least care for them and make them useful for nation building in the future. Canada has proven that importing punjabis for almost two decades and ignoring the local people is not effective. So yeah there is a meaningful difference a…

>Canada has proven that importing punjabis for almost two decades and ignoring the local people is not effective. Curious, that's what Americans once said about the Irish and the Italians and the Germans and the French and the Poles and the Chinese and Jews and Catholics and Muslims and so on and on ad nauseum. It's just a generational crab mentality born from xenophobia. Every new wave of immigrants decides they're…

It seems like you have misread my comment and think I have a particular thing against any group of people.

That is simply not the intention of the comment, if you read correctly you will note that what I meant is that you need to take care of your own people, something that the United States ACCOMPLISHED from the fifties until before Reagan.

I am just not more native than an Indian or Italian person that just like me came a few decades ago. However to pretend there is no difference between me and someone whose family has been here for decades or centuries... that is dishonest.

Why do you call Xenophobia to prioritize giving good jobs to the local population ? It seems like your reading comprehension as well as your definition of Xenophobia is deeply, deeply flawed. We can have immigration that makes sense. Like what Canada used to have...

We should prioritize those that have been for decades in a country and those whose families have paid taxes for multiple generations, there is absolutely nothing xenophobic about that.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

>Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrative at the expensive of the native-born Americans who actually built most of this country's prosperity is, at best, ahistorical. Except many of us can trace our family lines to immigration. On one side I have to go back to the early 1800's to see when they immigrated, but this is literally a country of immigrants. (other half of the family is late 1800s/early 1900s immigr…

I hear you, I took umbrage with that comment as well. But I think it’s fair to consider whether we are doing enough for Americans just as we are welcoming newcomers to settle here at the same time? My experience as a native born Californian, raised by a single immigrant mother living in urban poverty is no, we do not. Granted I escaped poverty by self-funding my engineering education (Federal Loans and working full time) but it took the better part of my 20s to do so, at great personal cost and risk. In many ways that experience taught me just how unfairly stacked the odds are against the working poor, let alone their children.
Post reply on HN