Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#331

Post by officeplant » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 9:54 PM UTC

brickfaced wrote: post #305

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

>Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrative at the expensive of the native-born Americans who actually built most of this country's prosperity is, at best, ahistorical.

Except many of us can trace our family lines to immigration. On one side I have to go back to the early 1800's to see when they immigrated, but this is literally a country of immigrants. (other half of the family is late 1800s/early 1900s immigration)

Even today I would assume the average American doesn't have to trace back more than 100-150 years to see when part of their family moved here.

>We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent.

Don't even get us started on ahistorical nonsense when you just want to make things up. Not when talented folks[0] had to work through system that didn't want them so they could eventually make all the difference.

[0]https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/hidden-no-more-...

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#332

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 9:57 PM UTC

brickfaced wrote: post #305

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

[deleted]

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#333

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 9:58 PM UTC

thecosas wrote: post #122

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps - in California. Median US Salary is $59,384. Half of workers make less.

Keep in mind the plant they are talking about is in AZ, where median wages and cost of living are generally lower than California.

By how much? Where I live in IA McDonalds is starting at $17/hour, which is not that much behind California. (and both states are large enough to expect some variation depending on where you live)

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#334

Post by threeseed » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 9:58 PM UTC

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #320

threeseed wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most small businesses do not have the luxury of ready made distribution channels. Especially if it's an ecommerce business.

A business’s viability outside of advertising doesn’t change the morality of advertising. Regardless of which side of the camp you fall on, you can’t argue that ads are “good” just because some businesses need them to survive. In fact, I’d wager if a business NEEDS ads to survive, it’s probably a net negative on society as a whole. I won’t die on that hill, but that’s my hunch.

Your entire premise is ridiculous.

Advertising is nothing more than bringing attention to your product to your target customer.

And without this so called immoral behaviour I fail to see how any business works.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#335

Post by WillPostForFood » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 10:00 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #323

brickfaced wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

Unless your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait ten thousand years ago, calling yourself "native born" doesn't mean a thing.

If you only came across ten thousand years ago, you are just a colonist that killed and displaced the people who came across sixteen thousand years ago. But that said, native born has a definition, and it is where you were born, not where your parents, grandparents or grand^14 parents was born.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#336

Post by TheGamerUncle » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 10:01 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #323

brickfaced wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

Unless your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait ten thousand years ago, calling yourself "native born" doesn't mean a thing.

It is kind of disingenuous and dishonest to say that there is no value or meaning on those Americans born in American soil, a nation should prioritize the people that live on it or well at least care for them and make them useful for nation building in the future.

Canada has proven that importing punjabis for almost two decades and ignoring the local people is not effective. So yeah there is a meaningful difference and saying native born in this context allows us to steer the conversation towards taking care towards those in the country already, which is something that neolib governments have not done in the last decades.

I say this as a person that was not born in the country he resides in now, but saying "calling yourself "native born" doesn't mean a thing " is a dishonest way to try to dissuade and delete necessary words that work towards more fruitful conversatons about how to improve th esytems in North America.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#337

Post by verisimilidude » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #306

jopsen wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the kinds of salaries that's possible in Silicon Valley only happens because: (A) Skills are fairly transferable. (B) There is a lot of employers competing for workers. (C) An awful lot of value is created along the way. If you specialize in some tiny part of chip manufacturing, there aren't many places you can transfer your skills. Even if, in the future, you have multiple chip vendors. They won't all use…

> Maybe it's not that simple. But few chip companies have to compete against startups for workers. And that probably won't change. It seems like what EE needs is something similar to open source, so that does happen. The way things like Google or AWS got started is they started with Linux and built something on top of it, so it could be a startup because they don't first have to build the world in order to make a con…

I believe you’ve just described the RISC-V project, though I could be mistaken.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#338

Post by nemomarx » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

PhilipRoman wrote: post #328

rjbwork wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And has less cultural cachet.

I disagree. From what I've seen, the lower level you go, the more advanced it is seen by other developers. As the copypasta goes: At the beginning, there was Purusha. From his face, born was the Brahmin, the priestly caste, the tooling creator, one who develops programming languages, compilers and standard libraries. From the arms of the Purusha, Kshatriya, the warrior caste, was born. Kshatriya is the developer of s…

that's by other developers, but I think in the mainstream know nothing culture people have an image of "coding" that's more prestigious and hackery than EE?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#339

Post by scelerat » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #323

brickfaced wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

Unless your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait ten thousand years ago, calling yourself "native born" doesn't mean a thing.

What’s magic about the Bering strait?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#340

Post by numpad0 » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 10:05 PM UTC

bugglebeetle wrote: post #128

byw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living can be a lot lower in Taiwan, if your property is already paid off. Unfortunately housing is super overpriced, due to the Asian mentality resulting in high property ownership. Real estate is always the monkey wrench in the gears of capitalism because of high necessity yet limited supply.

> Unfortunately housing is super overpriced, due to the Asian mentality resulting in high property ownership. I have no clue what this means and in countries like Japan, housing is a depreciating asset vs. an investment, so…?

It's just an obvious nonsense. Housing cost is dependent variable of local economic activities. People gather and property prices soar. Taiwan is jam packed so land prices would be higher relative to GDP per capita.

I think GP is finding concept of land scarcity non-intuitive for some reason.