Live data from Hacker News

Mark Zuckerberg says AI could soon do the work of Meta's midlevel engineers

businessinsider.com

101–106 of 106 posts

Re: Mark Zuckerberg says AI could soon do the work of Meta's midlevel engineers

#101

My company makes a boatload of money fixing urgent stuff companies cannot fix fast enough while losing money because it is broken. Without AI this type of thing is on the quick rise since we started end of the 90s and there is so much work we can just keep upping the hourlies and only pick the stuff we like. The last year or so, we have been finding naively generated AI code as a kind of incident multiplier. I think…

Tell me more about this !

Not so much to tell: example: some company has been running for the past 20 years on some erp and things have been attached to it and built around it over that time: suddenly it stops working for no clear reason and the company basically is not functioning fully or at all, losing whatever amount per hour. The original lead dev is gone or (in a recent case) died years ago and there is not much documentation, no issue tracking or even version management (it's a little HN myth that non IT companies all use that stuff as well; they don't, including some IT/SaaS ones we encountered). We get asked to fix it and make it run again. Sometimes we get ask to figure out a plan to fix it long term as well.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg says AI could soon do the work of Meta's midlevel engineers

#102

The whole debate about whether or not he can realistically do this based on the state of the technology seems like a side issue to me. What really stands out is that he and CEOs like him would imply that a large, critical segment of their work force is not especially valuable to them, and also that they don't really see them as people. Rather, they are things that can be set aside as soon as they aren't needed. These…

No need to unionize and strike in this case. Just convince people to stop using Meta's products. I've never had them (excl. a short period of WhatsApp) and never missed them.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg says AI could soon do the work of Meta's midlevel engineers

#103

He’s missing the bigger story here. B2B SaaS platforms like Salesforce/CRMs, etc are dead. Let’s say you’re a big company able to afford quite a bit of mid level AI engineers - why bother paying millions to Salesforce, when you can direct your 24/7 mid engineers to just replicate the Salesforce offering? Code quality doesn’t matter, it can be copy paste after copy paste, as long as the AI devs manage it. The death of…

> when you can direct your 24/7 mid engineers to just replicate the Salesforce offering

What happens when AI devs can't manage it anymore and it suddenly falls apart, with every new release shipping more critical bugs than it fixed?

I think you better pray that it happens sooner rather than later, because the larger the mountain of crap code becomes, the more it's going to hurt when it unravels, and less likely it is that it's fixable. Do you then just shut the company down?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg says AI could soon do the work of Meta's midlevel engineers

#105

I don’t know how they think that’s going to work. The best AI has been able to do for me is smarter Auto Complete, I doubt it can just fit into larger code bases without the searching a human can do. I know the job market has been rough which has emboldened these CEO’s but we are starting to see hiring pick up again, and not just Staff+, interns, SDE 1 and 2 as well, which bodes well for 2025.

How many developers are doing little more than writing boilerplate? Those are the the kinds of jobs best automated. A few years ago behavior-driven development tried to take this as far as possible, taking stories and then turning them into runnable tests. LLMs can already do a pretty good job of being fed inputs and some context and create running code (for example, give ChatGPT a class file and tell it to write a u…

> How many developers are doing little more than writing boilerplate?

Before you go down the road of what can be automated, let's try to answer this. I'm sure there's actual research, but I cannot find it.

Anecdotal, but with 20+ years of professional development under my belt, at startups, ngos, enterprise, goverment etc: "insignificant amounts".

Yes, some embed-images.sh or some invoice-extractor/src/main.rs - side projects related to a job. Every week some boilerplate like this.

But the vast bulk of my work is:

- finding out what customers/a spec/stakeholder really mean. And how important it really is (and encoding that in executable specs, preferably)

- keeping the old stuff somewhat up-to-date. Fiddling with old Ruby runtimes, Pipenv/pyenv/ or whatever todays flavor is. Nodejs, npm juggling. Docker. Cargo. Deprecations. Security patches. CIs, infra, crashing on updates etc etc.

- muddling through codebases with 10+ years of accumulated horrors. Touched by 100+ random freelancers, employees, most lost to the time. Crippling technical debt. Undocumented decisions everywhere. Crucial business requirements encoded only in these three LoCs amongst thousands of lines inside this update_user_projects() function.

- Trying to get this old project running again on todays OS/runtimes/etc.

- Stitching poorly documented, weirdly (or hardly) architectured, abandoned or outdated libraries together.

The way I see it, LLMs-code-gens currently are little more than unpredictable but advanced compilers. Compiling instructions into instructions that computers can execute. BDD could be a good language to write these instructions. And works for new stuff, and much less for existing stuff. "Maintaining existing stuff" is the vast majority of most developers' work, I'd thing. - but cannot back up -.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg says AI could soon do the work of Meta's midlevel engineers

#106
post #6

From hunter gatherer society to day, every time a new technology comes along that claims to make life ‘easier,’ it pushes us further into being slave-adjacent. We have phones, ChatGPT, Google, and smartphones—but for what? We end up working more and more. The greater the technological progress, the more our lives are exploited to generate profits for our corporate overlords. ChatGPT will save you time but your boss w…

I don't agree with the how, but the conclusion is true. I'll elaborate a bit more though... In a capitalist world, it will always seek to maximize profits. Human suffering, animal suffering, morality, and so on are basically irrelevant. Someone willing to exploit human happiness for an extra 2% gain, will wipe out the competition if they are unwilling to do the same. So everything is guaranteed to spiral in a race to…

> Human suffering, animal suffering, morality, and so on are basically irrelevant.

Not "irrevelent" but most often deliberately part of a strategy:

In economics, an externality or external cost is an indirect cost or benefit to an uninvolved third party that arises as an effect of another party's (or parties') activity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

Post reply on HN