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Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#81

Post by weaksauce »

ryandrake wrote: post #23
barbazoo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do pay higher premiums but that might not be enough to pay for a claim. The economics are often such that you price low risk drivers to subsidize higher risk drivers if realistically pricing the high risk drivers is not economical, i.e. would lead to losing business. It's a balance.

As another commenter pointed out, if insurance companies had a crystal ball and could perfectly predict each customer's probably of having an accident, and charged them an individualized rate based on future payouts, then we would not need insurance. You could just put those premiums in a savings account and pay for the accident(s) when they happen. The whole point of insurance is it's a shared risk pool. Arguments l…

as another commenter said, they lose money on the policies and paying out. they make money on investing the policies before they have to pay out the claims.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#82

Post by josephcsible »

bradleybuda wrote: post #58
rconti wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it when people naïvely believe the insurance companies' model of safety has anything to do with actual safety.

The insurance companies are betting their margins on this. If they are wrong, they will fail in the marketplace.

Since having insurance is mandatory, if they all charge too much, they won't fail.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#83

Post by caspper69 »

bkberry352 wrote: post #69
myself248 wrote: post #32

> "whether a consumer picked up or opened their phone while traveling at certain speeds," Presumably without asking whether they were a passenger at the time. Meaning that people who carpool are penalized by this practice...

The apps allow you to mark the trips on which you were a passenger and those aren't counted

This may not be true of all such apps, but I open mine and it subdivides trips by every stop (including stop signs and lights). Then when you don't do it for 3-4 days, you have 50 trips you need to click through.

My time was worth more than the savings they offered. In fact, it was insulting.

I should not have to spend 3 hours per month categorizing my trips for their data mining expedition for a $30 discount (especially not one that evaporated at the next renewal, because I wasn't safe enough). That app was rigged.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#84

Post by AnIrishDuck »

caminante wrote: post #65
ziddoap wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to post this investigation by Mozilla's "Privacy Not Included" whenever car privacy comes up, because it is actually horrendous. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-... > Mozilla’s latest edition of Privacy Not Included reveals how 25 major car brands collect and share deeply personal data, including sexual activity, facial expressions, and genetic and health information

Sex? How do they triangulate that from car telemetry?...blood pressure/heart rate signatures from face? Suspension rocking in a park at night? Maybe they pull it from your phone. I don't trust the manufacturers, but Kia seems to have said they have the right to collect sex info, but haven't. [0] > “To clarify, Kia does not and has never collected “sex life or sexual orientation” information from vehicles or consumers…

Where you drive and how long you stay there at night, correlated with your partner's connected car.

It's not a camera in the bedroom but you can pretty easily extract relationship graphs from geolocation tracking and proximity. US intelligence agencies have been doing it in the middle east for ages...

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#85

Post by johnbrodie »

rdtsc wrote: post #15

> The suit also cites Allstate as gathering direct car use data from Toyota, Lexus, Mazda, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Maserati, and Ram vehicles. Seems like the bigger part of the story is at the bottom. You can uninstall GasBuddy from your phone but finding and buying a new car that doesn't track you is a bigger hassle.

This seems to run completely contrary to Mazda's own Connected Services Privacy Policy, which states that by default (ie if you aren't paying the subscription for connected services, or never enrolled in it), they don't share info outside of Mazda, other than aggregate data for research purposes. Even the section discussing if you are an active subscriber indicates that your written consent is needed before it's shared with unrelated third parties.

https://www.mazdausa.com/site/privacy-connectedservices

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#86

Post by drawkward »

bradleybuda wrote: post #58
rconti wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it when people naïvely believe the insurance companies' model of safety has anything to do with actual safety.

The insurance companies are betting their margins on this. If they are wrong, they will fail in the marketplace.

oh yes, please tell us about this imaginary perfect marketplace. where does it exist?

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#87

Post by [deleted] »

nemomarx wrote: post #57
nyrikki wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the inference they have isn't reliable enough to predict anything except with broad groups. Swerving to avoid road debris or hard braking to avoid a deer as examples of what have cost commercial drivers jobs. Look at the CDL world for a view into this. I have 30 years of clean driving records BTW, so not trying to justify risky driving BTW

I guess you could argue that driving near deer at all is still more risk of accidents and damage to the car than a driver who never goes out of their suburb?

[deleted]

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#88

Post by WillPostForFood »

caminante wrote: post #65
ziddoap wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to post this investigation by Mozilla's "Privacy Not Included" whenever car privacy comes up, because it is actually horrendous. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-... > Mozilla’s latest edition of Privacy Not Included reveals how 25 major car brands collect and share deeply personal data, including sexual activity, facial expressions, and genetic and health information

Sex? How do they triangulate that from car telemetry?...blood pressure/heart rate signatures from face? Suspension rocking in a park at night? Maybe they pull it from your phone. I don't trust the manufacturers, but Kia seems to have said they have the right to collect sex info, but haven't. [0] > “To clarify, Kia does not and has never collected “sex life or sexual orientation” information from vehicles or consumers…

There are occupancy and weight sensors in the passenger seat to disable the airbag for children. Maybe if they see a high frequency pattern....

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#89

Post by drawkward »

cossatot wrote: post #43
airstrike wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the same as putting it in a piggy bank, isn't it? Or even better in a fixed income account.

No, because the amount of money you have in a bank account accumulates linearly, so you can only pay up to what you have put in. With insurance, you can get a payout more than what you have contributed up to that point, which is necessary for covering catastrophic damages.

With interest, the growth is superlinear

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#90

Post by aziaziazi »

nyrikki wrote: post #30
rs999gti wrote: post #5

This is Allstate, the house, trying to maintain their edge over their customers, the players. If they get additional info that tells them you are an unsafe driver, then their odds of you not getting into an accident diminish and their goes their premiums, the bets. Yah yah insurance reduces risks instead of adding it like gambling, but the analogies are still there.

No, the inference they have isn't reliable enough to predict anything except with broad groups. Swerving to avoid road debris or hard braking to avoid a deer as examples of what have cost commercial drivers jobs. Look at the CDL world for a view into this. I have 30 years of clean driving records BTW, so not trying to justify risky driving BTW

If you drive slower you’ll break smoother.

I hate insurances and their hidden shenanigany-like algorithms but at the end it is a fair game I when you look at the big picture.

I never owned a car but I feel deeply concerned as I use the road by foot, bike and rentals and am often scared by the drivers usage of the road. You know : texting, updating gps, driving full speed in turns without visibility, taking over as Schumacher in the last lap… I’m mean yes it’s safe for the other ones in bigger cars and themselves until no deer encounter.

The speed limit is a LIMIT not a requirement. And don’t start me with "you’re dangerous driving so slow" lol.

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