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Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

arstechnica.com

11–20 of 195 posts

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#11
post #4

It makes sense to share your data with an insurance provider if you are a well-behaved driver. It is well-behaved drivers that subside the insurance cost of reckless drivers.

The data collection methods are not foolproof and you can get dinged for "hard braking" even if you aren't. You're basically opting into a temporary rate decrease until they see data coming in that they don't like.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#12
post #4

It makes sense to share your data with an insurance provider if you are a well-behaved driver. It is well-behaved drivers that subside the insurance cost of reckless drivers.

Another way to say this: Bad drivers make YOUR insurance more expensive than it should be.

I think there are a few problems:

1. The opt in should have been much clearer, and probably should have been a real option not just all or nothing.

2. However, anyone who opts out will have more expensive insurance

3. Which means you have to share data that feels very personal, or be treated like a 2nd class citizen - which feels very icky.

4. Companies are sensitive to customers telling them they are icky, at least until customers get de-sensitized to the ickyness.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#13
post #9
post #5

This is Allstate, the house, trying to maintain their edge over their customers, the players. If they get additional info that tells them you are an unsafe driver, then their odds of you not getting into an accident diminish and their goes their premiums, the bets. Yah yah insurance reduces risks instead of adding it like gambling, but the analogies are still there.

I like it when unsafe drivers pay the costs of the way they endanger all of us.

Once insurance companies can charge perfect premiums, there will be no point in buying insurance at all.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#14
This is your friendly reminder that the insurance industry does not generally make money on underwriting. In other words they are losing money on insuring you. Typically the costs of the insurance side of the business are greater than their revenue from premiums. This typically means that insurance actually is a good deal on net. They make their money on investing the float. They can only do that if they attract premium payers by having the most competitive pricing. They can only have competitive pricing by having accurate data and models.

Allstate, for example, is billions of dollars in the hole on paying out claims for the past decade. Most insurance companies are.

Edit: I'm talking about underwriting losses. Selling insurance and paying claims is a sort of loss leader for the insurance industry. Insurance companies are net losers on paying out claims, but they make enough back by investing the premiums before claims have to get paid, that it is still a net profitable business.

Essentially insurance companies are loaned money by their customers since they are selling a promise of future payment on claims. They invest this pool of money and keep the gains until it is time to pay out on claims. Many companies (like allstate) pay out more in claims than they collect in premiums. For 2022 and 2023 they paid out 5 billion more in claims than they took in in premiums. Those were pretty bad years, but over the long run, just about every insurance company loses money this way.

Look at their financial reports if you don't believe me: https://www.allstateinvestors.com/static-files/d61a8007-647a...

Additional Edit: this comment is particular to the big property and casualty insurance products (home and car insurance on the consumer side). Best Buy extended warranties, health insurance, and other products may have business models that rhyme, but that don't follow this exact fact pattern.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#15
> The suit also cites Allstate as gathering direct car use data from Toyota, Lexus, Mazda, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Maserati, and Ram vehicles.

Seems like the bigger part of the story is at the bottom. You can uninstall GasBuddy from your phone but finding and buying a new car that doesn't track you is a bigger hassle.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#17
post #4

It makes sense to share your data with an insurance provider if you are a well-behaved driver. It is well-behaved drivers that subside the insurance cost of reckless drivers.

If everyone is going to be on their best behavior knowing their data is being recorded, wouldn't Allstate want this to be known?

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#18
At least GasBuddy still works well if you only share while using app and you can generally do without precise location.

In terms of its benefits, at least in Canada, it saves me a bunch of dough on gas. Highly recommended.

Though I like the French approach where gas prices are all on a government website without needing to depend on crowd-sourcing: https://www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/

I’m more worried about a navigation app spying on me.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#19
post #9
post #5

This is Allstate, the house, trying to maintain their edge over their customers, the players. If they get additional info that tells them you are an unsafe driver, then their odds of you not getting into an accident diminish and their goes their premiums, the bets. Yah yah insurance reduces risks instead of adding it like gambling, but the analogies are still there.

I like it when unsafe drivers pay the costs of the way they endanger all of us.

Oh yeah, I loved paying more than the purchase price of the car per year as a young driver. I have since crashed 0 cars, I am yet to kill anyone. In fact, the car mechanically totaled itself before I got to finish my years worth of insurance. On which I never got a refund on.

The pay-as-you-drive model might paint a picture of a more equal playing field, where everyone pays what they are due, but I think it is mostly a sham to squeeze more money out of people.

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