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43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

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Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#61
post #55

Comparing to previous Januarys seems dishonest given the vast number of layoffs that have occurred over the past year. Doesn't appear as though they're controlling for this number at all..

What vast number of layoffs? The national layoff rate is currently 1.1%, which is lower than the the pre-pandemic average [0]. The NYS layoff rate is 0.5% which is one of the lowest in the country. [0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSLDR [1] https://www.bls.gov/charts/state-job-openings-and-labor-turn...

"Private sector jobs in New York City rose by 79,800 over-the-year to 4,236,900 in November 2024." Amazing what people believe.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#62
As a thought experiment let’s take a technocratic moonshot: air traffic control but for 500k surface vehicles on 100k blocks.

Pricing reduces congestion, but only indirectly, and only in aggregate over the area to which it applies. Where is your ambition, hackers?! NYC could take this whole idea to the next level — level of hell, I’m sure some would think — and require that every vehicle needs a real time permit to be in motion on a block-by-block basis.

Permits are available only when the streets have capacity for another vehicle. When you park up, your permit gets released. When you want to get back on the road you join the back of the line for a new real-time permit to drive.

Stop lights could hold back traffic from entering congested areas. If you want to enter an area and it is full up, you have to sit and wait for another car to leave that cell. The central system manages the queues fairly: if a car exits the West boundary then you can enter on the East boundary if you were next in line.

It sounds like misery but honestly if the goal of any congestion policy is to ensure that traffic density never exceeds a given threshold, isn’t using globally coordinated block-level traffic control the ultimate way to achieve that goal?

The whole thing also sounds like a dream — again, possibly a fever dream — to implement and fine tune. NetEng has some transferable skills in this domain which could come in handy.

Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but also slightly hang on this is a great idea.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#63

Roads in cities are such a waste of space. A long time ago I did a quick survey of SF and found something like 20% of the land was dedicated to cars. Some articles from people here that talk about this [1] [2] [3]. That is the most subsidized land on the planet but people don't think of it that way. They think roads are free so any tax to use them is wrong. That space could be helping out the city in so many ways but…

How do you propose we handle logistics or emergency vehicles? I’m all for more walkable cities but rip them all up and replace them with what? Rails which are more expensive and less flexible? Pneumatic tube? Even if you switched to single person cargo bikes you would still want dedicated areas for vehicles versus pedestrians.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#65

Comparing to previous Januarys seems dishonest given the vast number of layoffs that have occurred over the past year. Doesn't appear as though they're controlling for this number at all..

Number of employed people rose in NYC over the last year[0] if I’m reading the stats correctly. [0] - https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2024/12/nychist.xl...

You are reading it correctly. There have never been more jobs in NY than there are right now. The unfortunately problem is that it appears all of the extra people are employed in making shit up and posting it on the Internet. "Vice President in Charge of Charlie Brown's Hoes" or similar roles.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#66

Roads in cities are such a waste of space. A long time ago I did a quick survey of SF and found something like 20% of the land was dedicated to cars. Some articles from people here that talk about this [1] [2] [3]. That is the most subsidized land on the planet but people don't think of it that way. They think roads are free so any tax to use them is wrong. That space could be helping out the city in so many ways but…

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Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you have a source for this?

Various buttholes, presumably. Anyone who has ever tried to adjust the phase of a traffic signal can tell you that sneaking little changes, all over a large city, is fantasy.

You’ve done this sort of work? There are a few in Berkeley I would like to try my hand at…

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#70

[flagged]

Only the rich get to drive too.

Cars loans, insurance , fuel and maintenance all costs money. There are lot of people who cannot afford to pay for any of it, we subsidize them too[1] to buy cars or invest in public transit instead ?

In a capitalist society , benefits are enjoyed by those with wealth, this what we signed up .

I am not saying it is a good or bad we have this, just that congestion pricing is hardly the issue to discuss changing economic systems

[1] absence of congestion pricing is a subsidy, costs of transport infrastructure is only partly paid by users of the infra at present .

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