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New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

arstechnica.com

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Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#41

Post by jmyeet »

Internet access is so important it should be available for low or no cost to basically everyone. Price caps like this are a half-assed fix because the providers are incentivized to make finding, ordering and having that service as painful as possible.

It's a bit like rental price controls. Look at all the vacant rent stabilized units in NYC. The real solution to housing is for the government to provide housing, not force discounts onto the private sector.

The real solution to this is for municipal broadband for the last mile. There is absolutely no reason why Internet access is as expensive as it is in the US. The only reason is rent-seeking national ISPs.

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#42

Post by aaomidi »

scarface_74 wrote: post #22
missedthecue wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why it's obviously yes. Broadband providers can compete with each other in a way that the water utility or roads cannot.

How? A broadband provider either has to create infrastructure costing billions hidden like water utilities or use over the air internet which has it own limitations based on spectrum and not all spectrum being usable for data transmission.

Right but that infrastructure is getting created either way, especially when you have power companies starting regional ISPs!

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#43

Post by bityard »

esafak wrote: post #25
johnnyanmac wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the $15 plan is about what I expected. the $20 plan is kinda absurd. I'm in CA, but I'm paying 100/month for a 400 Mbps plan.

The prices in CA are what's absurd. $100 for 400Mbps in 2025 is gouging.

Nah, try living in the midwest suburbs. Comcast charges me $70 for 75 Mbps.

I would gladly pay a lower price for less speed by they don't offer anything lower.

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#44

Post by snakeyjake »

bko wrote: post #32
snakeyjake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not increase the cost to ISPs. It does marginally decrease their profits. A profit is not a cost, and despite what finance bros think lower profits are also not a cost. It is perfectly possible to supply 1000Mbps symmetrical fiber service to end users for $20/mo because numerous self-sufficient non-profit municipal broadband organizations in the United States are doing just that. This is 2.5% the capacity f…

What does that have to do with what I wrote? If you want to transfer some ISP profits to low income New Yorkers, do that directly

Did you read what you wrote or was it a stream-of-consciousness thing?

Because you wrote:

> This will increase costs for ISPs and likely increase prices for others.

It will not increase costs.

Which is what I wrote.

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#45

Post by pksebben »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #24
missedthecue wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why it's obviously yes. Broadband providers can compete with each other in a way that the water utility or roads cannot.

> Broadband providers can compete. They can, but they don't unless forced to.

For real. In my area, you can choose between xfinity or comcast and if you don't like those hope you enjoy satellite for way too much money and awful latency.

Spoiler for the uninformed: Xfinity and Comcast are the same entity.

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#46

Post by pksebben »

scarface_74 wrote: post #20
bko wrote: post #5

> The New York law requiring Internet providers to offer cheap plans to people with low incomes will take effect on Wednesday this week following a multi-year court battle in which the state defeated broadband industry lobby groups. I don't like these types of mandates because it distorts the market. Politicians get to say "we provided X people with internet service and we didn't use a dollar of tax payers' money". W…

> I don't like these types of mandates because it distorts the market. Internet access is more or less a “natural monopoly” because of right of way issues and cost to build just like electricity and gas and water. Those things have always been regulated and had price controls. > Politicians get to say "we provided X people with internet service and we didn't use a dollar of tax payers' money". Which sounds nice, but…

> And what happens when ISPs can charge whatever they want - again a natural monopoly - should the subsidies increase,

You're making an assumption here. It worked fine when we did it for healthcare.

/s

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#47

Post by ProfessorLayton »

esafak wrote: post #25
johnnyanmac wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the $15 plan is about what I expected. the $20 plan is kinda absurd. I'm in CA, but I'm paying 100/month for a 400 Mbps plan.

The prices in CA are what's absurd. $100 for 400Mbps in 2025 is gouging.

Really depends where in CA. I'm in SF and pay ~$50 for 300Mbps (Comcast), but my parents across the Bay get symmetrical 10Gbps (Sonic) for the same price!

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#48

Post by Terr_ »

scarface_74 wrote: post #20
bko wrote: post #5

> The New York law requiring Internet providers to offer cheap plans to people with low incomes will take effect on Wednesday this week following a multi-year court battle in which the state defeated broadband industry lobby groups. I don't like these types of mandates because it distorts the market. Politicians get to say "we provided X people with internet service and we didn't use a dollar of tax payers' money". W…

> I don't like these types of mandates because it distorts the market. Internet access is more or less a “natural monopoly” because of right of way issues and cost to build just like electricity and gas and water. Those things have always been regulated and had price controls. > Politicians get to say "we provided X people with internet service and we didn't use a dollar of tax payers' money". Which sounds nice, but…

> because of right of way issues

Also, before someone says "that's only for cables", I'd point out that useful electromagnetic-spectrum bands and orbital-paths are finite collective resources as well.

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#49

Post by vel0city »

missedthecue wrote: post #18
doctorpangloss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of words. Do you think Internet should be a utility, or not? Obviously: yes. You enjoy water, schools, roads and power. Trash removal in NYC is free, and it's better for that community than being private. But also, you work in tech or something. More customers, less money being paid on meaningless rents. And fuck Comcast, right? Think critically. We don't need ISPs, and little about that ecosystem resul…

I don't see why it's obviously yes. Broadband providers can compete with each other in a way that the water utility or roads cannot.

Not really, not unless we enforce last mile unbundling. There's not going to be multiple fiber lines run to every house in my neighborhood for the same reasons why there aren't multiple power lines or multiple water lines or multiple sewer lines.

Re: New York starts enforcing $15 broadband law that ISPs tried to kill

#50

Post by orra »

bko wrote: post #5

> The New York law requiring Internet providers to offer cheap plans to people with low incomes will take effect on Wednesday this week following a multi-year court battle in which the state defeated broadband industry lobby groups. I don't like these types of mandates because it distorts the market. Politicians get to say "we provided X people with internet service and we didn't use a dollar of tax payers' money". W…

> Which sounds nice, but you can't really get something for nothing.

This is hyperbole. First, nobody's getting something for nothing. Second, the eligibility is limited. Besides, this is hardly the first time a price regulation has been applied to a failing market.

> I really don't want me ISP to track my income.

Then don't apply for the discount.

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