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Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

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Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#61

Post by stinkytaco »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #55
stinkytaco wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm referring more iOS. I think the idea of "webapps as a first class citizen" is a bit of a red herring. Web apps will never be first class citizens (especially not on a phone) because they fail simple performance tests. I think what OSs ought to aim for is what Android does, a smooth integration of offline and online modes. Ubuntu does this somewhat , iOS not really at all (though it is successful in the way…

I think you're being short-sighted. There's nothing inheritantly different about mobile that prevents web apps running as well as they do on the desktop. You are aware that on the desktop JavaScript engines like V8 can keep up with any garbage-collected language, right? There are a few reasons why things are progressing slower on mobile, among them: 1) There is very little browser competition on mobile. Users are eit…

I have a couple of responses:

1. Who wants to write complex programs in JS? I mean, it's OK and all, but it's messy when you can be writing native apps. I remember the iPhone being all about the webapps when it came out, but native apps ultimatly won.

2. Internet access is still not widely available. On Sprint, where I am, it sucks. If I'm out in more remote regions (which is part of mine and many others jobs), it's gone. Or if I'm in a tunnel on the train, or an elevator, or in my bathroom at work, etc. Or you're on AT&T, have capped bandwidth, etc.

No, we need apps that have a smooth offline to online transition. Maybe web apps will make it there, but I feel we're far enough away that I still like Android's approach.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#62

Post by MatthewPhillips »

tysonjennings wrote: post #56
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing what's right in front of you; the fact that web apps suffer from bad performance on Android is a prime example of how it is failing. Perhaps Google doesn't care about web apps, but that would be a huge turnaround from just a few years ago when it was one of the web's biggest proponents.

I have an iPad and web apps suck on it too. What is your benchmark for good performance? I'm being serious as I'd love to be able to have a legitimate mobile outlet for high performance web applications.

I think the best example of this is Windows 8, which has 2 application environments, .NET and Trident (The IE10 rendering engine). They are, for all intents and purposes, on equal footing with each other, and an end user can't tell which environment an application uses.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#63

Post by flatline3 »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #62
tysonjennings wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an iPad and web apps suck on it too. What is your benchmark for good performance? I'm being serious as I'd love to be able to have a legitimate mobile outlet for high performance web applications.

I think the best example of this is Windows 8, which has 2 application environments, .NET and Trident (The IE10 rendering engine). They are, for all intents and purposes, on equal footing with each other, and an end user can't tell which environment an application uses.

In that case, it's no longer standard or portable HTML/JS, no?

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#64

Post by rbanffy »

trentonstrong wrote: post #29
rbanffy wrote: post #13

My biggest worry is tying the HTML and JS engines too deeply into the desktop and end up with drive-by exploits that can do more than a browser would ordinarily be able to do.

I think this is a valid concern, but as JS engines start implementing more and more of the rich web client working drafts like FileAPI ( http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ ), those same concerns will be valid for your browser too. I can only imagine that developers of desktop platforms like this are aware of these drafts too and are planning to utilize as much as they can of the functionality provided. As with most securi…

I like the idea of assigning permissions to applications. Then if browser B runs under user U, its effective permissions would be the intersection of what both B and U are allowed to do. I don't see why Firefox should be able to write anything outside ~/.mozilla/firefox and ~/Downloads

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#65

Post by rbanffy »

ww520 wrote: post #31

Isn't this a throwback to the Windows Active Desktop? Windows actually had led the way to integrate webapp/webpage with the OS, but everyone hated it back then.

I don't think this is like Active Desktop. It's not about rendering the desktop with a browser engine, but allowing the desktop apps to interact more completely with thin envelopes around browser engines that run HTML-based applications.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#66

Post by MatthewPhillips »

flatline3 wrote: post #63
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best example of this is Windows 8, which has 2 application environments, .NET and Trident (The IE10 rendering engine). They are, for all intents and purposes, on equal footing with each other, and an end user can't tell which environment an application uses.

In that case, it's no longer standard or portable HTML/JS, no?

The engine that powers it is exactly the same, the difference is additional APIs (that add functionality, not performance). Everyone already agrees that HTML/JS needs more APIs.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#67

Post by pserwylo »

king_magic wrote: post #25
streptomycin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch more than the first 15 seconds of the video.

Honestly, I'm not really impressed. The demo of Shotwell was the only thing that seemed to be more than a link to a web app, and even then, it just looked like a normal app.

I was thinking glorified bookmarks at the beginning too, but then I saw how it integrated the last.fm controls into the media widget in the panel. I am also currently using the Online Accounts functionality in Gnome, and it is pretty cool how it will automatically use the credentials from each account I specify in applications which support it.

My main use case is my multiple Google accounts (work, uni, personal) and their respective calendars. I just fire up evolution, it automatically connects to Google and the calendar widget in the panel populates with my events. Its just a shame that only evolution does this, and Thunderbird does not seem to integrate with it.

This is pretty similar to Android, how you specify your online accounts, and it is up to individual applications to make use of those credentials if they please. There just seems to be much more usage of this in Android than in Gnome.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#68

Post by yobbobandana »

king_magic wrote: post #25
streptomycin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch more than the first 15 seconds of the video.

Honestly, I'm not really impressed. The demo of Shotwell was the only thing that seemed to be more than a link to a web app, and even then, it just looked like a normal app.

Gmail and Google+ came up under the communications menu, and last.fm was integrated with the sound menu. App menus and features seem to be available from the HUD. Seems pretty well integrated to me.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#70

Post by SkyMarshal »

fingerprinter wrote: post #30
SkyMarshal wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. They mention security once. Not enough. Odds of me using this over the hardened Chrome/ium are pretty slim. Having said that, as a long-time Ubuntu user, kudos to them for doing something new and interesting.

* Odds of me using this over the hardened Chrome/ium are pretty slim. What are you saying here? This isn't a new browser, rather a plugin on the browsers. You still use Firefox or Chromium.

Ah, looked more like a native app using the browser rendering engine or something. Will take a closer look later when I upgrade to 12.10.
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