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Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

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Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#41

Post by MatthewPhillips »

tysonjennings wrote: post #38
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're a bit confused, Android doesn't do a very good job of making web apps 1st class citizens at all. Even though I don't use it, iOS does the best job there. When you create a desktop shortcut for an app, it will get an icon that looks just like all other apps' icons, it will launch into a full-screen chromeless browser that you wouldn't know was a browser at all (with a loading image, even). You can also…

I think you might be missing the point. Android does a great job of integrating data from the cloud with the operating system. An example is the Google Music player streams your music from the cloud and integrates the player controls with Android on the lockscreen, in the widget, in the status bar etc. The demo video from Canonical shows this kind of integration with last.fm. Nobody is saying Android or Ubuntu is per…

The point of this (Ubuntu feature) is not that it's integrating proprietary Ubuntu services with the OS (it has already done that, with Ubuntu One), like your example of Google Music, the point is that it is promoting web applications to first-class citizens alongside the native apps. Android fails at this pretty badly.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#42

Post by MatthewPhillips »

stinkytaco wrote: post #39
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're a bit confused, Android doesn't do a very good job of making web apps 1st class citizens at all. Even though I don't use it, iOS does the best job there. When you create a desktop shortcut for an app, it will get an icon that looks just like all other apps' icons, it will launch into a full-screen chromeless browser that you wouldn't know was a browser at all (with a loading image, even). You can also…

I don't just want to be able to open webapps on my phone with a shortcut, I want real integration. I'm sometimes not connected to the Internet so I like to have my data offline, but I like to be able to get it online quickly. Android does this very well. Share intents, music player integration, it's just a very slick offline to online seamless system.

Rewatch the video, it's more than just a shortcut.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#43

Post by tysonjennings »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #41
tysonjennings wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be missing the point. Android does a great job of integrating data from the cloud with the operating system. An example is the Google Music player streams your music from the cloud and integrates the player controls with Android on the lockscreen, in the widget, in the status bar etc. The demo video from Canonical shows this kind of integration with last.fm. Nobody is saying Android or Ubuntu is per…

The point of this (Ubuntu feature) is not that it's integrating proprietary Ubuntu services with the OS (it has already done that, with Ubuntu One), like your example of Google Music, the point is that it is promoting web applications to first-class citizens alongside the native apps. Android fails at this pretty badly.

"web applications to first-class citizens alongside the native apps. Android fails at this pretty badly"

Android isn't "failing" at something that it isn't trying to do. Web apps generally suffer from low performance when trying to do anything moderately complex on a mobile device. If you must use web technology to create apps on Android, there is webView in the sdk for you. Many web apps that have tons of users like Google Maps, Pandora, etc. have native apps that are actually performant, follow UI conventions, and have access to all the APIs.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#44

Post by mindstab »

skimmas wrote: post #6

Currently I can only see these as yet another way to lose a little bit of your privacy. But I'm also a debian kind of guy so... :P

Only if you use these services. They are offering integration with them, far from forcing you to use them. And if you were already using them these features are an amazing boon and don't affect your privacy at all.

Using cloud based apps may affect your privacy but that is independent of this.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#46

Post by skimmas »

notatoad wrote: post #28
skimmas wrote: post #6

Currently I can only see these as yet another way to lose a little bit of your privacy. But I'm also a debian kind of guy so... :P

what? how does this impact privacy in any way?

every time you turn on the computer it will log you in. So there's info sent to the server... As time goes by I'm pretty sure these service providers will find more ways to get more info from you and more useful ways to analyze that data. I know my view on the matter is pretty extreme, but I can't feel comfortable not knowing exactly what is being done with my data.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#47

Post by MatthewPhillips »

tysonjennings wrote: post #43
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of this (Ubuntu feature) is not that it's integrating proprietary Ubuntu services with the OS (it has already done that, with Ubuntu One), like your example of Google Music, the point is that it is promoting web applications to first-class citizens alongside the native apps. Android fails at this pretty badly.

"web applications to first-class citizens alongside the native apps. Android fails at this pretty badly" Android isn't "failing" at something that it isn't trying to do. Web apps generally suffer from low performance when trying to do anything moderately complex on a mobile device. If you must use web technology to create apps on Android, there is webView in the sdk for you. Many web apps that have tons of users like…

You're missing what's right in front of you; the fact that web apps suffer from bad performance on Android is a prime example of how it is failing. Perhaps Google doesn't care about web apps, but that would be a huge turnaround from just a few years ago when it was one of the web's biggest proponents.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#48

Post by stinkytaco »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #42
stinkytaco wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't just want to be able to open webapps on my phone with a shortcut, I want real integration. I'm sometimes not connected to the Internet so I like to have my data offline, but I like to be able to get it online quickly. Android does this very well. Share intents, music player integration, it's just a very slick offline to online seamless system.

Rewatch the video, it's more than just a shortcut.

Yeah, I'm referring more iOS. I think the idea of "webapps as a first class citizen" is a bit of a red herring. Web apps will never be first class citizens (especially not on a phone) because they fail simple performance tests. I think what OSs ought to aim for is what Android does, a smooth integration of offline and online modes.

Ubuntu does this somewhat, iOS not really at all (though it is successful in the way you speak of), but I feel there's a combination of the way Adnroid, iOS and Ubuntu are doing this that could hit a sweet spot.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#49

Post by jackalope »

mindstab wrote: post #10

Android was leading the way in this (best sharing between online services etc). This looks like the first other OS to "get it" and push hard to integrate with the cloud. I think in some ways this surpasses Android. Mean while we have iOS that's just congratulating itself for allowing photo uploads to twitter, meanwhile my Android phone has integration with services I've never even heard of. And MacOS and Windows... n…

OS X had all this in the Dashboard long before... anyone, maybe? There are some pretty amazing Dashboard apps, and quite a lot of them are well integrated with the Internet. They should have called it Floorboard, though, because that's where it seems to be hidden under, and system performance takes a huge hit as soon as you activate the Dashboard and every single app you've loaded into it, even if you only want to use one. If they had made them first class desktop citizens, you'd be praising Apple for this innovation. A nod should probably also go to Opera, which had something similar, but just as crippled in Widgets.

Re: Introducing Ubuntu Web Apps: setting the web free of the browser

#50

Post by ralfn »

scribu wrote: post #19

I know this is a prototype, but if each app is going to load in a new Firefox window, with the full chrome, no thanks. If it opens a new window without the chrome (or at least without the tabs), it might be ok.

Well, most of those webapps will likely navigate/open external websites.

I would love to have a hacker news window by default, so that external links i open there are nicely managed within the hackers news app.

So, the tab bar is a plus, if you ask me. The address bar and the new tab icon, should be removed though. Better yet, the new tab icon, should open he base url, or some other logical url: for gmail it could be a compose windows, for example.

And "mozilla firefox" should not be part of the window title. Other than that, actually hiding the fact its a browser is not really usefull. The tab bar, the menu .. No reason to remove those by default.

But i suspect, these apps are running in their own profile, and it is firefox, so we could always tweak the chrome ourselves.

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