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A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

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Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#161
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However there's another company that buys cheap land from farmers in the Amazon, with cheaper labor, ships it up via freight, and sells it for marginally cheaper. The costs in the latter example are largely driven by transportation - and while cheaper, has a significantly larger carbon impact. How does this apply to recycling though? Landfills in developed countries have little, if any externalities, because they're…

Largely I agree - landfills are not nearly as bad as people assume based on aesthetics and history. In fact, putting plastic in the ground is essentially a form of carbon sequestration. I just disagree with the logic of "If recycling is more expensive, isn't recycling the wrong thing". There's many situations where prices do not correlate with environmental impact. In the case of recycling, I haven't done the researc…

> I think for aluminum and glass it checks out, but not really for most plastics.

That's the same thing I've seen demonstrated. It's really too bad that the plastics industry seized on the opportunity to greenwash wasteful amounts of plastic packaging by giving people a recycling bin that claims to do something useful with that discarded plastic, when in reality it's rare for post-consumer plastic to make any rational sense (other than those things like we're discussing, where people in practice waste even more resources in the recycling process just to feel good that the plastic material itself was technically not 'wasted').

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#162
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the toothbrushes we've owned in our lives still exist. What is the cost of having them around still? I don't know, but I know it wasn't factored in at all when we bought them.

Really it depends where they end up. If you drop them on the street, that incurs a greater cost than landfill, which probably is less economic than incineration (plastic contains a lot of energy).

Honest question (no agenda): How does burning plastic interact with the environment in terms of producing pollution and/or CO2, I guess compared with putting it in a landfill?

I'm fine with stipulations like using some kind of (economically-viable) filter on the resulting smoke.

All that I "know" about it is only based on vibes so that's why I'm asking.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like Pringles are made from the nastiest rotting potatoes in the planet. It's been 20 years since the last time I set foot in a potato plant, I can still smell it.

Good. That means they're reducing food waste. A big problem with the food market is that people shop with their eyes, which leads to stupid amount of waste on fruit&vegetables section, as people prefer to go to another store than to buy veggies that look anything less than perfect.

In a lot of cases, that's how it works in nature too though. Visual appeal on the tree/bush is a big part of what attracts an animal to a fruit. It's just how we're built.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#164

I'm reminded of similarly useless "sustainable cardboard furniture" that came out about a decade ago. On the positive side, kudos to whomever in marketing/pr at the design firm got this useless product so much press. This is just the sort of "win" that a design consulting shop loves to have for actual briefs that lead to real moving-the-needle revenue. One example would be SmartDesign's modular slip-on "S-Grips" that…

60 or 70 years ago.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#165
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. That means they're reducing food waste. A big problem with the food market is that people shop with their eyes, which leads to stupid amount of waste on fruit&vegetables section, as people prefer to go to another store than to buy veggies that look anything less than perfect.

In a lot of cases, that's how it works in nature too though. Visual appeal on the tree/bush is a big part of what attracts an animal to a fruit. It's just how we're built.

I find dangerous red berries and colored frogs very attractive.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

good point, and countries that do this on a massive (clean) scale count it (probably correctly) in their efficiency and non-fossil fuel stats. We really under-report the cost ($$$ and energy) of the full recycling chain, both complicated parts like plastics that should probably be burned and capture/treat the results, and simple things like glass; other than reuse it should NOT be recycled.

I have concluded, as a general rule of thumb, that if something costs more to recycle than to produce naturally, it is probably more harmful to the environment to recycle it than to create it fresh and dispose of it properly. There are certain exceptions to this -- nickel cadmium batteries come to mind -- but for things like this, the question isn't "is it more economic to produce it new than to recycle it?" so much…

That probably means that recycling is not worth it, so the only responsible way is to reduce its usage as much as possible (reusing or replacing with better solutions)

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#167
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often see "recycled" or similar as a signal for more expensive. My favorite was when I saw a jam that touted "upcycled" strawberries. When I looked into it, it basically meant that it was made from beat up ugly strawberries that would have been used for animal feed. Surely there would be cost savings in using reject fruit, right? No, an 8oz jar retails for over $8 compared to about half that to an organic no sugar…

>When I looked into it, it basically meant that it was made from beat up ugly strawberries That's true for basically all processed food that contains fruit or vegetables, for obvious economic reasons. The stuff that looks good goes to the supermarkets who care very much about shelf appeal, the rest goes to the processors who absolutely don't.

Oddly enough it now means that canned tomatoes are better than fresh.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#168
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. That means they're reducing food waste. A big problem with the food market is that people shop with their eyes, which leads to stupid amount of waste on fruit&vegetables section, as people prefer to go to another store than to buy veggies that look anything less than perfect.

In a lot of cases, that's how it works in nature too though. Visual appeal on the tree/bush is a big part of what attracts an animal to a fruit. It's just how we're built.

Right, but animals aren't as picky as humans - they'll eat anything that isn't rotten (and then some animals actually prefer rotten stuff). Meanwhile people will avoid buying veggies that look off even if there's no risk to health or taste involved.

I suppose this is because most animals in the wild are always couple hours away from starvation and just can't afford being picky eaters.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#169
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of cases, that's how it works in nature too though. Visual appeal on the tree/bush is a big part of what attracts an animal to a fruit. It's just how we're built.

Right, but animals aren't as picky as humans - they'll eat anything that isn't rotten (and then some animals actually prefer rotten stuff). Meanwhile people will avoid buying veggies that look off even if there's no risk to health or taste involved. I suppose this is because most animals in the wild are always couple hours away from starvation and just can't afford being picky eaters.

Yeah elks love to get drunk on rotten apples. Humans prefer rotten grapes.

Re: A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper

#170
post #77
post #59

A couple of points. It is not aesthetically pleasing at all, which is important to me, for whatever neurological reason. Also, I consider a laptop stand as just a device to raise the screen to a better ergonomic level on the understanding that an external keyboard and mouse will be used to operate the device. Otherwise, in a laptop stand, ergonomic keyboard use requirements pull the incline towards level, and ergonom…

You can't get ergonomics with a (modern) laptop keyboard. Reaching over the touchpad is at best, a compromise. Unfortunately keyboard at the edge + sidemounted trackball is long dead, and keyboard at the edge + pointing stick didn't last a lot longer. Last I used a laptop at a desk on the regular, state of the art laptop stands were reams of printer paper. Worst case, you need to actually use the paper in the printer…

I often observe people at my office using the laptop keyboard and monitor exclusively, while sitting at their desks, even though we are all given external monitors, keyboards and mice.

I guess they are young and their bodies don't hurt yet.

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