Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

hanselman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 83 posts

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#61

Post by mythz »

mythz wrote: post #55
shanselman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's no different from using HTML5+JavaScript against browser specific APIs or using CSS3 vendor prefixes. Calling external stuff from JavaScript (even if that external thing is Windows itself) is not new and it's not bad that it's not portable any more than writing XUL wasn't portable.

If there's no equivalent work around it's not portable - simple as that. Proprietary hooks and APIs aren't evil, but suggesting developing for Metro is "open" and portable is wrong. Since you've mentioned it, Mozilla isn't touting to use XUL for "open" cross-browser apps - although XUL itself, unlike anything Metro, is open source and does run cross-platform. Mozilla is even deprecating the use of XUL for its new Fir…

>> And Boot to Gecko will no doubt use lots of Firefox OS specific stuff just as WebOS does.

Where did you hear that? everything I've heard is the exact opposite:

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/a-deep-dive-into-mozilla... >> Everything is HTML5 >> The core to the Boot to Gecko project is the web. Everything you see — right down to the power icon and network status information — is generated by and displayed with HTML5. The icons for the apps, the apps themselves, and the notifications the apps generate… all HTML5. Even the Dialer and the Settings for the device are handled this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS >> Firefox OS (formerly Boot to Gecko, B2G) is an open source operating system in development by Mozilla that aims to support HTML5 apps written using "open Web" technologies rather than platform-specific native APIs. The idea is essentially to have all user-accessible software running on the phone be a Web app that uses advanced HTML5 techniques and device APIs to access the phone's hardware directly via JavaScript.[2] It initially targets Android-compatible smartphones.

The difference is Firefox OS is building as much as they can (everything?) with HTML5, Whilst all Metro's advanced functionality is hidden behind proprietary APIs - The comparison of "open-ess" between the 2 is not even close.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#62

Post by j_s »

px1999 wrote: post #20
tarr11 wrote: post #15

Interesting that they put this in a Git repo (instead of TFS), but only to then push it to CodePlex (instead of Github)

I don't have any proof to provide (and if I did, it would all be anecdotal) but I've heard rumours that Microsoft are planning on breathing life into codeplex and have an exciting/significant set of changes in the pipeline (which should improve on some of the things that make using DVCS painful). Considering Team Foundation Service, project Kudu/Git deploy on Azure etc. it makes sense to think that Microsoft are maki…

See https://tfspreview.com/ and http://blogs.msdn.com/b/codeplex/archive/2012/04/30/new-code...

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#63

Post by shanselman »

mythz wrote: post #61
mythz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's no equivalent work around it's not portable - simple as that. Proprietary hooks and APIs aren't evil, but suggesting developing for Metro is "open" and portable is wrong. Since you've mentioned it, Mozilla isn't touting to use XUL for "open" cross-browser apps - although XUL itself, unlike anything Metro, is open source and does run cross-platform. Mozilla is even deprecating the use of XUL for its new Fir…

>> And Boot to Gecko will no doubt use lots of Firefox OS specific stuff just as WebOS does. Where did you hear that? everything I've heard is the exact opposite: http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/a-deep-dive-into-mozilla... >> Everything is HTML5 >> The core to the Boot to Gecko project is the web. Everything you see — right down to the power icon and network status information — is generated by and displayed with…

What existing "HTML5 API" is going to give you network status and power icon info? Of course everything will be HTML5/JavaScript/CSS just like Chrome OS, but the fact remains that that functionality doesn't exist in the W3C specs as they are.

Checking out the Mozilla Docs at https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI it appears that these "privileged" APIs are extensions, as they should be. For example, navigator.fm.antennaAvailable is to control the FM Radio.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#64

Post by boyter »

cek wrote: post #4

This makes me even more bullish on Xamarin/Mono. As Miguel de Icaza of Xamarin tweeted this morning after this was announced: "Wow @scottgu announces that Microsoft open sourced the Entity Framework, Mono's Achilles heel" I believe if you are building mobile clients and need to target more than one platform you should do your UI with the native APIs on each platform, but should use something like Mono to achieve as m…

Agreed. If we get first class support for MySQL with C# running on Mono I will run to C# for all my development work instantly.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#65

Post by j_s »

cek wrote: post #4

This makes me even more bullish on Xamarin/Mono. As Miguel de Icaza of Xamarin tweeted this morning after this was announced: "Wow @scottgu announces that Microsoft open sourced the Entity Framework, Mono's Achilles heel" I believe if you are building mobile clients and need to target more than one platform you should do your UI with the native APIs on each platform, but should use something like Mono to achieve as m…

The amazing thing to me is that they've been able to thrive simply by focusing on mobile... they dropped Moonlight on the floor even as MS-bound line-of-business devs everywhere found out that Silverlight is a dead end.

http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/moonlight-list/2011-Decemb...

  > 
  > Some of the other work I believe is a gold mine of technology,
  > in particular our media pipeline, the rendering/layout code and
  > the animation framework. Perhaps someone would find a use for
  > that code in the future, we currently do not have plans to
  > continue developing Moonlight.  
  > 
  > - Miguel de Icaza
  >

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#66

Post by j_s »

untog wrote: post #30
cek wrote: post #4

This makes me even more bullish on Xamarin/Mono. As Miguel de Icaza of Xamarin tweeted this morning after this was announced: "Wow @scottgu announces that Microsoft open sourced the Entity Framework, Mono's Achilles heel" I believe if you are building mobile clients and need to target more than one platform you should do your UI with the native APIs on each platform, but should use something like Mono to achieve as m…

It is crazy how C# is one of the few languages you can actually use to develop both iPhone and Android apps (as well as WP, obviously). It's a great language- I just wish that a license for MonoTouch didn't cost $400. Also, does anyone know how to develop for MonoTouch using Visual Studio? I want to like SharpDevelop but I just can't... and of course, VS doesn't run on OSX. (I haven't tried SharpDevelop in over a yea…

MonoTouch is $79/student ('currently enrolled at an accredited institution [...] even publish to Apple's App Store') per http://support.xamarin.com/customer/portal/articles/177042-d...

Be sure to check out MonoDevelop, which has a few full-or-most-time paid developers behind it: http://monodevelop.com/Screenshots

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#67

Post by josephcooney »

whileonebegin wrote: post #31
mythz wrote: post #23

EF is another overly architected + bloated fx from Microsoft. It's over 12x slower than other Micro ORMs like Dapper + OrmLite - Benchmarks at: http://www.servicestack.net/benchmarks/#dapper The benefit of Micro ORMs is that they bind to clean re-usable POCO's (which by nature can be re-used as DTO's, ViewModels, etc). Most of them also add features as DRY extension methods over the underlying ADO.NET System.Data.* i…

Have you tried EF Code First? It lets you define classes, with no inherited base class, that can be used with the Entity Framework.

No base class, but add half-a-dozen attributes to every single one of your properties...

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#68

Post by alexro »

notJim wrote: post #59
jmcqk6 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of startups that have been successful on the .NET stack. The one that pops to mind first is Stack Overflow. .NET & XNA are pretty popular in indie games due to exposure to the xbox. There are many examples, but they don't tend to over lap much with the crowd here at HN.

What's the second one that pops to mind? And, because I can actually name a second one :p, what's the third?

The second one - even before the first one - is MySpace :)

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#69

Post by Glide »

Rastafarian wrote: post #50
jl00080 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NHibernate does support LINQ

Yeah ... somewhat ;) Basic queries do work, but not ready for production use.

But NH has other methods of querying that are readily available. EF doesn't make those as accessible.

I was able to put in full text function support in NH HQL rather easily in an app and I don't see that ability in EF. I'm working on a desktop application and the ability to precompile the dynamic proxies would help the startup time of the application. I would love if I could do that in EF, I've done it before in NHibernate.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#70

Post by josephcooney »

flyinRyan wrote: post #5

Is Entity used a lot? We looked at using it but it seemed to be inferior to NHibernate (don't remember details, think there was a problem with type error detection and other stuff).

EF is horrible. I've every version since V1. Every system I've worked on that used EF needed major code tuning under production work loads. Before compiled queries (4.1? 5?) supporting more than a handfull of users concurrently was hard. Plus it is just a leaky abstraction over SQL. Many hours spent running stuff through EF, looking at the reams of SQL produced, and trying to tweak the EF query to produce the desired SQL. NHibernate or Dapper or even plain ole' stored procs are preferable to me.
Post reply on HN