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Right to root access

medhir.com

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Re: Right to root access

#211

Post by playa06 »

jmb99 wrote: post #136
stavros wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because it would no longer be our computer, we should buy one that's not ours from the start?

Would you prefer for your technologically illiterate relatives (think grandparents/etc getting their first computing device): - A computer that is compromised by malware - A computer that doesn’t permit the user to install malware, and as a consequence, possibly alternative operating systems Your phrasing implies that “it would no longer be our computer” is equivalent to “one that’s not ours from the start.” As far a…

> Would you prefer for your technologically illiterate relatives (think grandparents/etc getting their first computing device):

Ah, the good old "think of the grandma". HN's version of "think of the children". And just like the conservative pearl clutchers, I don't think there's much sincerity in those thoughts. You are more afraid of the possibility that there would be less users to squeeze through adtech and crapware sold on appstores. Most HNers make a living from making the world an even worse place.

There's a lot of devs here very happy to have a captive audience of people too ignorant to know better, either exposing their eyeballs to constant onslaught of ads on "free" apps, or paying for really basic functionality.

I will never forget that show HN post that talked about selling a clone of Handbrake, a program that exists just to set a few flags on FFMPEG, and making a living out of it, because the Apple audience has been brainwashed to take out their wallet for the dumbest of things.

Ah, there it is:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39987579

The average HNer.

The average value add of people constantly bemoaning the idea that there could be regulations to stop them from enslaving new generations to tech is lower than that of scammers.

Re: Right to root access

#212

Post by stavros »

p_ing wrote: post #194
stavros wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because I can sudo on my computer, my computer is open to any attacker? What's wrong with this comments section? Has anyone here used a computer before?

What does the operating system have to do with an attacker? What's wrong with this comments section? Has anyone seen Israeli offline attacks of iPhones before?

The iPhones that famously won't let you unlock their bootloader? Yes we have, and I don't think that's making the argument you think it's making.

Re: Right to root access

#214

Post by ziml77 »

jmb99 wrote: post #142
alex7734 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am happy my iPhone doesn't allow Meta to say "to use WhatsApp, you must install the MetaStore®, give it root and install it from there". I would not be happy with those restrictions on my desktop. You fix that by making root access inconvenient enough that companies can't rely on the average random user having it enabled. For example force you to wipe the device to unlock it as another person said in another comm…

> You fix that by making root access inconvenient enough that companies can't rely on the average random user having it enabled. AI TikTok voice “Hey guys, if you just bought a new iPhone, make sure you remove Apple’s restriction locks so they can’t control what you install. Just follow these easy steps, but make sure you do it as soon as possible, since you’ll have to set up your phone again!” With the comments fill…

Don't forget in the video to tell them that it will allow them to install apps that get them more performance, better battery life, better cell signal, etc.

Re: Right to root access

#215

Post by mschuster91 »

jmull wrote: post #208
lapcat wrote: post #32

There are a ton of products on the market that are vastly more dangerous than computers: guns, cars, motorcycles, bicycles, chainsaws, table saws, cigarettes, alcohol, junk food. Yes, consumers do sometimes harm themselves by using these products. That's the price of freedom . I think it's bizarre that we treat computers as the most dangerous products in the world that for some reason demand paternalism, when none of…

> There are a ton of products on the market that are vastly more dangerous than computers An irrelevant "whaddabout" argument. It doesn't change that we need security and privacy for our information handling devices, as well as personal control. The real conversation is about how to best balance these.

> It doesn't change that we need security and privacy for our information handling devices, as well as personal control.

I can do online banking on my PC as root user if I so choose, but I cannot do online banking on my phone because my bank's app employs a rooting detector SDK that as of now even Magisk+a host of (questionable) modules can't bypass.

Re: Right to root access

#216

Post by regnull »

lapcat wrote: post #32

There are a ton of products on the market that are vastly more dangerous than computers: guns, cars, motorcycles, bicycles, chainsaws, table saws, cigarettes, alcohol, junk food. Yes, consumers do sometimes harm themselves by using these products. That's the price of freedom . I think it's bizarre that we treat computers as the most dangerous products in the world that for some reason demand paternalism, when none of…

Before we put all the blame on vendors, I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, this: the public finds this tradeoff (privacy for entertainment) completely acceptable. With all the outrage, privacy-centric solutions are out there and relatively easy to find, how come they don't get more traction? Including among the HN crowd?

Re: Right to root access

#217

Post by lapcat »

cesarb wrote: post #202
lapcat wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You’re kidding, right? You seem to have completely forgotten, or put the drunk glasses, on what living in the 2000s was like. Again, citation needed. I made it through the 2000s just fine, thank you. > What a stereotypical HN comment. Cite something that only applied to the 2nd generation of consoles to prove me wrong, even though my point spans almost all console generations. No, I was explaining the historical or…

> Again, citation needed. I made it through the 2000s just fine, thank you. Playing devil's advocate: banking trojans used to be really common here in Brazil back in the pre-smartphone era of the early 2000s (smartphones already existed, but weren't very commmon; most people who used online banking did it through their home computers). They're the reason why, for a long time, it was hard to use online banking on Linu…

> Playing devil's advocate

What does this even mean? Do you stand behind what you say? If so, then just say it without hiding behind the devil. And if you don't stand behind what you say, then why in the world are you saying it?

Re: Right to root access

#218

Post by andrewla »

I'm not entirely aligned with this article, though I think the principle is correct.

I do think that it should never be illegal to tamper with a device that you own in any way that you find acceptable.

But I do not feel that manufacturers have any obligation to make this easy or possible.

It should be completely legal to hack your devices and to distribute tools and instructions for hacking devices without limitation.

Re: Right to root access

#219

Post by lapcat »

Retr0id wrote: post #204
invalidlogin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A chainsaw does not introduce an opportunity for thousands of remote criminals to steal money from your bank account.

It does introduce an opportunity to lose a limb, though. I think I'd rather have my bank account hacked.

> It does introduce an opportunity to lose a limb, though. I think I'd rather have my bank account hacked.

Exactly!

Re: Right to root access

#220

Post by i5heu »

andrewla wrote: post #218

I'm not entirely aligned with this article, though I think the principle is correct. I do think that it should never be illegal to tamper with a device that you own in any way that you find acceptable. But I do not feel that manufacturers have any obligation to make this easy or possible. It should be completely legal to hack your devices and to distribute tools and instructions for hacking devices without limitation…

But the question here is if it should be illegal for manufacturers to make the modify a product.

The difference is between a locked down boot loader and one that is just a standard boot loader.

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