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You can't optimize your way to being a good person

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Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#161

Post by lo_zamoyski »

A couple comments...

1. Utilitarianism fails to understand morality. It isn't about maximizing the amount and number of "good effects". That's ridiculous. Putting to one side the psychopathic things that have been done following this line of thinking, the nature of morality is to be a good human specimen. That is to say, it is to live in accord with your nature, not opposed to it. Now, because we are social and rational animals, that will entail a good measure of acting for the good of others.

2. While we do have emotional reactions w.r.t. moral matters, morality is a matter of rationality. To fault utilitarianism with being "too rational" is to grant it a status it absolutely does not have and does not deserve. It is a defective understanding of morality that lacks rationality. It is irrational, in part because it also misunderstands rationality. Relying on emotion is not a solution to bad rationality. Why would they be? If anything, we have an obligation to align emotions with reason.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#162

Post by moralestapia »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #144
physicles wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t she have died from exposure if you hadn’t found her? There’s a beautiful quote from a 2019 episode of the podcast The Anthropocene Reviewed, Auld Lang Syne. John Green recounts some advice he got while in college and working as a chaplain at a children’s hospital: “Don’t just do something. Stand there.”

The FF/EMT who was on our team of 3 felt that she was likely 2hrs from hypothermic death. How accurate that is, I don't know. But basically, yes, she would have died if not found.

Interesting.

Did the FF/EMT factor in the non-linear response of the body to prolonged cold exposure in a semi-conscious state, or was the 2-hour hypothermic window derived purely from a calculated assumption of metabolic shutdown under idealized conditions?

Given the reported risk of imminent hypothermic death, can we assume the field intervention included a comprehensive thermal balance assessment prior to transport? Specifically, was there any attempt to implement active rewarming protocols during the extrication phase, or was the focus solely on stabilization and preservation of core temperature via passive methods?

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#163

Post by rawgabbit »

nchmy wrote: post #159
rawgabbit wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christianity teaches we are all children of God, brothers and sisters with equal dignity and respect and heirs to a heavenly kingdom. We reject the Trolley problem. We reject the idea of starving sailors on a deserted island should draw lots and eat one of their own. To argue otherwise is to agree with what we decried about ancient societies. Sacrificing children/prisoners/slaves to Moloch for own benefit is the sure…

Can you elaborate on why you reject the trolley problem?

The trolley problem poses the question should we sacrifice the few for the benefit of the many. We reject this line of thinking as all are children of God.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#164

Post by CSSer »

euroderf wrote: post #160
JackMorgan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a epic story. What gear were you in, were you in structural gear or something else? Just the thought of hiking in my structural gear gives me blisters.

Y'all are experts here. May I ask, are those mylar blankets really a thing ? Do they work ?

Hi, I don’t have their expertise but I backpack and camp a lot, including in some pretty hostile environments. I keep a pack of 12 in my trunk for emergencies. The answer is yes, they’re a thing and they work. They’re super lightweight. However, I wouldn’t want to use one unless I had to. They keep you warm by trapping all of the moisture and humidity from your body inside. This means you’ll feel clammy and sweaty if you use one for long. This is why they’re called “emergency blankets”.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#165

Post by euroderf »

CSSer wrote: post #164
euroderf wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'all are experts here. May I ask, are those mylar blankets really a thing ? Do they work ?

Hi, I don’t have their expertise but I backpack and camp a lot, including in some pretty hostile environments. I keep a pack of 12 in my trunk for emergencies. The answer is yes, they’re a thing and they work. They’re super lightweight. However, I wouldn’t want to use one unless I had to. They keep you warm by trapping all of the moisture and humidity from your body inside. This means you’ll feel clammy and sweaty if…

But they trap the body heat too, yes ?

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#166

Post by Cthulhu_ »

gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

But if you volunteer someone with the goal of being nice, are you actually being nice or just trying to accrue brownie points? I mean to the beneficiaries of your work it honestly doesn't matter what your motivation is.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#167

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jimt1234 wrote: post #33
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

100% ... In my life, I accepted a while back that I don't have to solve world hunger or cure cancer in order to be a good person - just be as courteous to others as I can; focus on the little things. For example, I always park my car in the back of parking lots (or otherwise far away) because I'm perfectly capable of walking, while others might struggle. Is that gonna get me a Nobel prize? Certainly not. But I like t…

And in your case, there's probably going to be other people that park somewhere they shouldn't, but... that's their choice and ultimately their moral burden. Like not returning shopping trolleys.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#168

Post by Cthulhu_ »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #49
jimt1234 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% ... In my life, I accepted a while back that I don't have to solve world hunger or cure cancer in order to be a good person - just be as courteous to others as I can; focus on the little things. For example, I always park my car in the back of parking lots (or otherwise far away) because I'm perfectly capable of walking, while others might struggle. Is that gonna get me a Nobel prize? Certainly not. But I like t…

I selfishly park in the back because I hate circling the lot looking for a spot. It may/nor be more time efficient on average, but I do not have to deal with that frustration just to save a few steps.

It reminds me of the three great virtues of a programer; laziness, impatience and hubris [0].

[0] https://wiki.c2.com/?LazinessImpatienceHubris

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#169

Post by Cthulhu_ »

in-pursuit wrote: post #128
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

Why is it that only "doing nice things" or "volunteering your time" makes you a good person? Does a traffic engineer not better the lives of others? What about a farmer? Where does the food served in a soup kitchen come from if not from the sweat of the farmer's brow? The shelter over everyone's head only exists because truckers transported the materials. Simply existing in a way that isn't purely self-serving is oft…

Note that this is a bit of a straw man argument because the person you replied to didn't say "only" doing nice things makes you a good person. These are also ways to be a good person. The other is being a farmer, but only if you treat your staff and land and/or animals with respect and longevity in mind instead of capitalist exploitative min/maxing.

"Do no evil" is a good adage to live by, instead of "be a good person". In a lot of cases, doing nothing is the way to be a good person.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#170

Post by Cthulhu_ »

edanm wrote: post #142
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

I'm somewhat certain that people who worry about whether they're good people are usually better than people who don't think much about it. I've not met many people who thoughtfully engage with the question of how to live a moral life, only to just not put any of it into practice. I've met plenty of people who barely think about it, and don't consider it a question of much interest.

However, those that say / claim / behave like they are good people can be called out for hypocrisy, e.g. some people of the clergy, politicians, celebrities etc.
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