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You can't optimize your way to being a good person

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Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#131

Post by scotty79 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #109
scotty79 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he did burgle a house, so obviously he had some pre-existing behavioral issues, right? And those are probably not gone. > Most of the anger came from prison, and from being screwed over, to be thrown in there. That clearly illustrates that he didn't progress at all in his understanding of life. I'd be afraid to live within few kilometers of him let alone having him work at my company if I had one

Yup. He never adjusted. He was always acting as if he was still in The Yard.

My point was, he might have already been acting as if he was in The Yard before they put him in The Yard.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#132

Post by f1shy »

bloomingeek wrote: post #94
f1shy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either moral systems are complete, or they are inconsistent. That is interesting. I will be meditating if I can fully subscribe… maybe, but still not sure. What I can say, is that when I was 20 I thought I could clearly say what was right or wrong, then when I was 30, I had to change everything, then with 40… so yeah…

Good point. People tend to say we mellow with age, I think it's that we have more experience that can help us grow more wise. For myself, in my mid-20s, I became a Christian and fell into the trap of religious perfectionism. In my mid-30s I began to see some cracks in what I was being told. (skipping forward) I now understand, in my mid-60s, that God doesn't demand perfectionism, but effort. When I fail, I just get b…

Hears very very similar to my experience, but still not in the 60's :)

There was a commercial on TV, it was in a barber shop. One guy talking to the barber: "When I was 20 I thought I knew everything, then I got married. At age 30 I thought I knew it, but then I got a baby. With 40 I started to think I was almost there, but then my father died. At 50 again, I thought I was finally understanding life, but then the kids left home. Now I'm almost 60, and finally, this time, I think I know something about life." At that moment an old man on the back stands up and interjects "I'm 85, can you explain it to me, because I still have no idea!"

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#133

Post by metalman »

While you cant optimise your way to bieng a good person, there are companys with the right conections and skills to do it for you. Reputaion cleaning or some simlar term, for the do it yourselfers, the newspaper and publishing industry offers indidvuals the option of having articles including there criminality, etc, pulled, deleeted.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#134

Post by anon7000 »

in-pursuit wrote: post #128
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

Why is it that only "doing nice things" or "volunteering your time" makes you a good person? Does a traffic engineer not better the lives of others? What about a farmer? Where does the food served in a soup kitchen come from if not from the sweat of the farmer's brow? The shelter over everyone's head only exists because truckers transported the materials. Simply existing in a way that isn't purely self-serving is oft…

> Simply existing in a way that isn't purely self-serving is often enough to be hugely helpful to others.

You’re basically saying the same thing. “Doing nice things” just gets you in the mindset of helping others, which many people don’t actively do.

And obviously it’s possible to be a bad person who still works in a job that does some good in the world.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#135

Post by whatisyourwork »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #85
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

Last Saturday, myself and two other firefighters managed to find a woman lost in a maze of 40+ miles of trails. Her hip had dislocated, she could not move. The temperatures were in the upper 20s (F) (-3C or so) with serious windchill amidst 35mph/56kph wind gusts. It was extremely dark. We stayed with her and tried to keep her as warm as possible until a UTV arrived to extricate her. I was home by 01:00, after 4hrs o…

For that person, the security of having help might be as useful even medically as the parts that other medics did later.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#137

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

scotty79 wrote: post #131
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. He never adjusted. He was always acting as if he was still in The Yard.

My point was, he might have already been acting as if he was in The Yard before they put him in The Yard.

Maybe, but I didn't know him, before.

I have, however, been dealing with after-incarceration folks for a few decades, and there's a particular type of attitude that is absolutely required to survive, inside, and that must be completely stripped away, once they get out, as it is pure poison, outside the wall.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#138

Post by JackMorgan »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #85
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

Last Saturday, myself and two other firefighters managed to find a woman lost in a maze of 40+ miles of trails. Her hip had dislocated, she could not move. The temperatures were in the upper 20s (F) (-3C or so) with serious windchill amidst 35mph/56kph wind gusts. It was extremely dark. We stayed with her and tried to keep her as warm as possible until a UTV arrived to extricate her. I was home by 01:00, after 4hrs o…

That is a epic story. What gear were you in, were you in structural gear or something else? Just the thought of hiking in my structural gear gives me blisters.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#139

Post by physicles »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #85
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

Last Saturday, myself and two other firefighters managed to find a woman lost in a maze of 40+ miles of trails. Her hip had dislocated, she could not move. The temperatures were in the upper 20s (F) (-3C or so) with serious windchill amidst 35mph/56kph wind gusts. It was extremely dark. We stayed with her and tried to keep her as warm as possible until a UTV arrived to extricate her. I was home by 01:00, after 4hrs o…

Wouldn’t she have died from exposure if you hadn’t found her?

There’s a beautiful quote from a 2019 episode of the podcast The Anthropocene Reviewed, Auld Lang Syne. John Green recounts some advice he got while in college and working as a chaplain at a children’s hospital: “Don’t just do something. Stand there.”

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#140

Post by physicles »

mdrzn wrote: post #136

"I feared I’d just lost my optimal soulmate and was now doomed to a suboptimal life, one that wouldn’t be as meaningful as it could be, one that fell short of its potential" definitely resonates.

This mindset is such a trap. It leads to worse outcomes.

Out of all the people you can pair-bond with, and for some definition of soulmateness, one person is the greatest.

In the space of all the decisions you could’ve made in your life, there are some paths that would’ve indeed led you to that person.

But that person’s identity, and that path, are simply unknowable. Even if they were knowable, odds are you’d screw up somewhere down the line, and know that you did so, and that could destroy a person.

Similarly, your life definitely isn’t as meaningful as it could possibly have been (for some definition of meaning), and it definitely has fallen short of its potential. Your life is suboptimal. Everyone’s is.

This is human. This is ok.

To be clear: it’s up to you to decide whether this is ok. If you decide it’s not ok, then as you agonize over the delta between your hypothetical maximized self and your actual self, you will miss your life.

That hypothetical maximized self doesn’t exist. Fuck ‘em. You exist. You’re the only version of you that matters.

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