Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait until you see IPv4
So why does 6 have to repeat 4's historical (and very publically recorded) mistakes?
People thought there was not enough bureaucracy and wonder why it's not improving after adding bureaucracy.
IP addresses through 2024
41–50 of 90 posts
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…
Then, we’ll make IPv8, with 2^1024 address, which will be incompatible with IPv6 and IPv4 and all software on release, and will take decades before any appreciable uptake. Addresses will use hexadecimal, as well as the entire 4-byte Unicode table of emoji and Egyptian hieroglyphics, with octet separated by $ and { symbols for heightened readability.
Yet there will still be comments asking why IPv8 can't be IPv4 with another few sets of digits tagged onto the end, as if that would somehow be compatible with the current implementation of IPv4.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#43I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…
> does not accurately describe how large the ipv6
It is not the limitation, but router hardware is.
Now problem mostly eased, thanks to Moore law, but 20 years ago router memory need to store prefixes-routes graph was very expensive and have some problems with grow.
For example, I know people, bought very expensive server PC boards (but cheap compared to enterprise networking hardware), with DDR2 capability, because it was fastest at that time and promises large RAM space.
Imagine their frustration, when they seen, this hardware cannot allocate prefixes list for their installation (just not enough RAM) and they have to buy new hardware with DDR3.
This even caused "curse of /24", when some providers decided to just discard /24 prefixes and work only with /16 directly and for smaller allocations use some default route.
And this is just because nature of Internet, which is by definition "network of networks", mean, in ideal case all networks should have peer connections at least to all first circle neighbor networks, but better if have peers to few first circles, plus connections to large local hubs.
And now problem become harder, because of grow of p2p solutions, which by definition avoid hub model and use all peers directly.
BTW, colleague from telecom share latest problem - few days ago appear huge traffic. In very short time found source - after appear new "Stalker" game, their developers made huge number of fixes, so fixes are larger than installation, and they somewhere bought so powerful distribution network, distribution of fixes flooded all connections for few days.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#44I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…
It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is. I have found that extreme examples tend to help people get there. Here are some I’ve used in the past. There are enough IPv6 Addresses for 4.77 x 10^28 for every living person. If each IPv6 address was a grain of sand… That’s 2.39 × 10^18 of addresses per person, or roughly enough sand sized addresses to equal about 1.8 times the volume of earths ocean per person…
One problem of ipv6 is proponents saying there are 2^128 addresses.
It's really hard to comprehend how many unusable ipv6 addresses are.
Having more than 2^16 hosts on a subnet is pretty much impossible. Sticking with "grain of sand" units, but using volumes all from wolfram alpha:
There's 2^80 usable IPs in the entire ipvv6 space, because of the /64 subnets. That's plenty. But for every subnet, that's 40 cubic metres unusable for every subnet, and a sphere 1mm wide of usable addresses.
My ISP give me a /48. I have under 30 addressable devices over 3 vlans. I'm using 40 cubic miles of space. A ratio of about 10 trillion:1
But that's nothing. The IP allocators are happy to give a bank a /16, or in your "grain of sand" measurements 30 times the volume of the moon.
To match my unused:used ratio of 10 trillion to one, chase manhattan would need 2^70 devices, which is billions of addresses per cell.
All the space that fanboys go on about is almost all unusable, so the extreme examples don't really help at all.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is Amazon not demand? Do they exist outside economics? (Legally they're supposed to use those addresses within a year(?) of buying them, but I won't pretend that anyone would really notice whether that's the case or not.)
There is an hourly fee for IPv4s now. There was not before.
That's more to do with increasing prices than decreasing demand
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#46Desktop application, for classic client/server should allocate a transient IPv6 local address only for one session (namely a desktop policy system must give that right to user selected applications only), and I even wonder if browsing one site should not get its own IPv6. Ofc, the local ISP IPv6 router should be scaled for a reasonable domestic usage.
Ofc, server like desktop applications should randomly choose an IPv6 there, but it has to stay stable since this number will have to be given to other people to connect to such server (I am talking dodging DNS $$$ racketeering or Big Tech "nameIPv6" mapper service, aka for the smhol internet).
Only if the ISP is providing a /64 prefix ofc.
In my country, nearly 100% of domestic internet lines are working like that, and it has been the case for years. The main issue, is IPv6 on mobile internet: in my country most mobile internet has IPv6 enabled... but it seems you don't get a /64 prefix but a different /128 ip address at each authentication of your sim card.
If it ends up not being a trick of my current IPv6 mobile internet modem, this is very bad, REALLY bad: I cannot give a stable mobile internet IPv6 to my contacts for communication (sort of a phone number dedicated to them). Mechanically, it will force people to use classic centralized client-server services, hence force people into Big Tech.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is when Amazon stopped pouring money into buying up as much IPv4 as possible and the market returned to demand based pricing.
Is Amazon not demand? Do they exist outside economics? (Legally they're supposed to use those addresses within a year(?) of buying them, but I won't pretend that anyone would really notice whether that's the case or not.)
> but I won't pretend that anyone would really notice
I've got a /24 that I obtained back in the Wild West days of the early 1990's, when all you had to do was send an email form and a few minutes later you'd get one assigned. I haven't used it in over 20 years now, but nobody has ever come to take it from me.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then, we’ll make IPv8, with 2^1024 address, which will be incompatible with IPv6 and IPv4 and all software on release, and will take decades before any appreciable uptake. Addresses will use hexadecimal, as well as the entire 4-byte Unicode table of emoji and Egyptian hieroglyphics, with octet separated by $ and { symbols for heightened readability.
Yet there will still be comments asking why IPv8 can't be IPv4 with another few sets of digits tagged onto the end, as if that would somehow be compatible with the current implementation of IPv4.
I swear it is easier to argue with flat earthers than with people who want IPv4 but with more addresses.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is. I have found that extreme examples tend to help people get there. Here are some I’ve used in the past. There are enough IPv6 Addresses for 4.77 x 10^28 for every living person. If each IPv6 address was a grain of sand… That’s 2.39 × 10^18 of addresses per person, or roughly enough sand sized addresses to equal about 1.8 times the volume of earths ocean per person…
Hah - all of those examples use a planet as comparison. The first 16 bits of the address should be reserved to be used by the Planetary Internet Addressing Council (PIAC) Allocating all addresses to Earth seems very shortsighted. (Some sarcasm should be assumed.) It doesn't really matter how you explain large-number math to people who are bad at large-number math (aka all of us) - there's always some bright-spark who…
Well we could argue that this support for trillions of IP addresses is nice, except that IPv6 does not technically work in interplanetary environments due to various hardcoded timeouts.
The first martians are likely to run their own local network and then use a VPN over DTN for their everyday communications by email (and appear coming from a single IPv6 address).
One good thing though: since most of the humanity’s knowledge is going to be packed in an LLM they won’t really actually need internet to learn about things. But lack of videos may be annoying.
Re: IP addresses through 2024
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then, we’ll make IPv8, with 2^1024 address, which will be incompatible with IPv6 and IPv4 and all software on release, and will take decades before any appreciable uptake. Addresses will use hexadecimal, as well as the entire 4-byte Unicode table of emoji and Egyptian hieroglyphics, with octet separated by $ and { symbols for heightened readability.
I believe IPv8 does something else: https://py-ipv8.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
IPv8 dev here. Thnx for mentioning this.
IETF draft standard of IPv8: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-pouwelse-trustch...
Bonus: "De-DSI" == LLM- based fuzzy search + IPv8